Shock Question For the Experienced Guys...

[Muskoka Minute]

Need your help as not sure which way to go on my Rubicon.
(3 part question)

Just put 35"s on her and she mainly see's on road, some mild/ moderate off road, forest/un assumed roads etc.
Would like to give her a bit of a lift (say 2 1/2" max)

1. Do the better shocks really make that much of a on/off road difference on our vehicles.
Which one of the FOX shocks would you recommend for my use and why?
- 2.0 smooth body IFP ($800)
- 2.0 smooth body reservoir. ($1240)
- elete series 2.5 reservoir ($2000)

2. Spacer lift or Coil lift
Which one would you recommend and why?
A - small spacer lift with factory shocks (say 2" AEV)
B - small spacer lift with better shocks (say 2" AEV $490)
B - coil lift with stock shocks (say Clayton 1 1/2" or 2 1/2" ride right)
C - coil lift and better shocks (say Clayton 1 1/2" or 2 1/2" ride right, $1700)

3. Which Combination would you recommend or have experience with and why?
A - small spacer lift with factory shocks (say 2" AEV $490)
B - small spacer lift (say 2" AEV) with elite 2.5 smooth body reservoir.($2500)
C - coil lift with factory shocks (Clayton 1 1/2" or 2 1/2" ride right) ($1700)
D - coil lift (Clayton 1 1/2" or 2 1/2" ride right) with the 2.0 smooth body IFP ($2500)
E - Other cost effective solutions/recommendations?

Not sure where to put the money?
In the lift or in the shocks?
I would like to go with the Clayton coil lift and the 2.5 reservoir ($3700) but the budget wont handle that ...
Any and all help for a Newbie is appreciated...

Cheers Folks.

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[Fonzilla85]

1. Yes, shocks make a difference. 2.0’s are solid and based on what you described, they sound like the better option for you. 2.5’s are great but you’ll have to stay on top of the maintenance that comes with them. Also, unless you are running high speed desert washboard roads or carrying heavy loads, the 2.5’s will be overkill.

2. I’ve ran a spacer lift with shock extensions and now I run a full lift, I can say I prefer the full lift ride quality better than the spacer lift. Most all companies tune the shocks to the coil rate in order to provide the best ride possible.

3. Option D seems like the best one. Clayton seems to offer quality products at fair prices.l and many people on this forum seem to think they are great. Rancho also offers a 2” lift with shocks for under $1000. Rancho is a solid company that’s been around for decades

 

[Powelligator]

If you're going to any 2" or greater lift the rule of thumb way to go is springs and shocks, and the above comments apply. That said, if you just want to clear 35's on a stock Rubicon 2-Door you can do that with no modifications. Maybe if all you want is a small boost to account for added weight of tools, winch, etc. you can get away with something like a Teraflex 1.5" spacer lift. My advice either way is to consider a set of the Mopar lower control arms, those are longer than than OE by 1/4" or so and make a world of difference, for right around $80 - $100 (I don't know what the exchange rate is these days).

 

[DewHawk]

I'd caution going the Clayton route. They are rock solid products, that's not something I'm even gonna question. The spring rates however are much firmer than what you're currently running stock so you're likely to experience a pretty stiff ride. Some people love this aspect, but personally I see it as a major negative for a daily/road use Jeep with occasional off road use. I really see Clayton being meant more for overland/heavy rig use than most others.

That all being said, I've run AEV's spacer lift with extensions and bilstein 5100's, Teraflex ST2 on 5100's, Metalcloak True dual on 5100's, Metalcloak Gamechanger on rocksports, and now Rock Krawler Ultimate Adventure on Fox IFP's. I can say without a shadow of a doubt my current Rock Krawler setup is simply sublime compared to the rest. The quality of the parts, the ride comfort, the handling, etc, it's all perfect in my opinion (aside from my current AT3W tires but that's a personal preference thing, the sidewalls are just a little stiff for me compared to what I've run before and their snow/ice grip isn't great).

*Keep in mind my experience is based on 4 door JLUR's of various powertrain flavors so your results may vary with the 2dr.*

It all boils down to how much you wanna spend. For what you're looking to do, the AEV spacer lift with extensions is honestly more than enough bang for the buck and still very good on road. You're ultimately not changing the spring rates/dampening enough to notice much beyond the obvious extra body roll from sitting a static 2" higher plus 35's.
If you wanna go with something high quality that's a total upgrade with dynamic ride changes based on terrain, a full lift is where you can quite literally spend to your hearts desire to achieve what you want. Given the kits I've had, I'd happily spend the money on Rock Krawler again without question. Metalcloak I'd rank 2nd with their game changer system as long as it's paired with good shocks. It's just the little bit of a step down in quality IMO that's really evident holding parts in hand. I'll never do Teraflex again. Their bushings are straight up trash that look identical to OEM and their spring rates suck for comfort (subjective opinion I know, but it was bad enough for me I wouldn't bother again). Just not worth the money at all. I'd rather buy Rancho's stuff before I'd go Teraflex again.

Hope this gives some food for thought that helps in some small way. If you have the ability to ride along/drive other peoples rigs to get a sense of how each rides, that would be worth it's weight in gold compared to anything anyone can say to you here.

 

[AnnDee4444]

E - Other cost effective solutions/recommendations?

If you're OK with stock articulation... I'm pretty happy with the ride of my 392 Fox takeoff shocks (Bronze sticker, not olive... $350 on eBay), Metalcloak's Durospring bumpstop (supposed to be +1" to match the 392 shock's compressed length), and stock springs. It would be very cost effective to add a 1.5" spacer and would probably ride even better with more bump travel.

 

[rohdawg]

The spring rates however are much firmer than what you're currently running stock so you're likely to experience a pretty stiff ride.

I really see Clayton being meant more for overland/heavy rig use than most others.

The Clayton Offroad Ride Right set up is exactly the kind of solution the OP is looking for.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/product/jeep-wrangler-15-ride-right-lift-kit-2dr-2018-jl

 

[AnnDee4444]

The next line is important: "*2-door Jeeps may receive slightly more lift than advertised due to differences in vehicle weight "

 

[DewHawk]

The Clayton Offroad Ride Right set up is exactly the kind of solution the OP is looking for.

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/product/jeep-wrangler-15-ride-right-lift-kit-2dr-2018-jl

That's all well and good, but has anyone actually checked to see what the spring rates are on these new right right systems? It seems to me based on their expected height increases that they're just packaging their existing springs with less parts to bring the cost down. If that's the case, I'd still be cautious of how stiff they ride on the road.

Something I figured out pretty quickly after having Teraflex, Metalcloak, and Rock Krawler springs is just how different all 3 ride based on their different philosophy's. Teraflex largely likes to keep their springs linear which is similar to stock, but the result here is a rate that's the same regardless of where your suspension is in it's stroke. In my experience, that was a pretty harsh initial jolt over bumps before the shocks could dampen the impact. Metalcloak being a dual rate helps minimize that initial jolt but leads to a lot more squishy roll in the meat of the spring that the shocks have to compensate for. Rock Krawler having a triple rate spring gives the planted feeling throughout the range to account for different stages of suspension movement. Something they figured out through their off road racing program. It's extremely satisfying to live with everyday because regardless of what I hit with the tires, the suspension just soaks it up and it doesn't feel harsh at any point. The Fox IFP's I paired with these springs really do work well to balance it all out.

Unless I'm mistaken, I'm fairly certain Clayton takes the same approach as Metalcloak but ups the spring rate to account for that extra squishy feeling which I've seen a couple times be reported as very firm/stiff as a result.

 

[rohdawg]

The next line is important: "*2-door Jeeps may receive slightly more lift than advertised due to differences in vehicle weight "

You’re correct and the OP started out by asking about shocks where this is a lift solution without addressing shocks. Threads go off track and I’m guilty of that here.

 

[AnnDee4444]

That's all well and good, but has anyone actually checked to see what the spring rates are on these new right right systems? It seems to me based on their expected height increases that they're just packaging their existing springs with less parts to bring the cost down. If that's the case, I'd still be cautious of how stiff they ride on the road.

Something I figured out pretty quickly after having Teraflex, Metalcloak, and Rock Krawler springs is just how different all 3 ride based on their different philosophy's. Teraflex largely likes to keep their springs linear which is similar to stock, but the result here is a rate that's the same regardless of where your suspension is in it's stroke. In my experience, that was a pretty harsh initial jolt over bumps before the shocks could dampen the impact. Metalcloak being a dual rate helps minimize that initial jolt but leads to a lot more squishy roll in the meat of the spring that the shocks have to compensate for. Rock Krawler having a triple rate spring gives the planted feeling throughout the range to account for different stages of suspension movement.

Unless I'm mistaken, I'm fairly certain Clayton takes the same approach as Metalcloak but ups the spring rate to account for that extra squishy feeling which I've seen a couple times be reported as very firm/stiff as a result.

Clayton is 160 Front, 137-200 rear (progressive). Stock is probably around 130-140 front (stiffer than JLUR), 172-176 rear (same as JLUR).

Check the Spring Rates tab here.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Here's just the Clayton springs:
https://www.claytonoffroad.com/prod...-jeep-gladiator-jt-05-lift-front-coil-springs

https://www.claytonoffroad.com/product/jeep-wrangler-15-rear-coil-springs-jl

Edit: the front ones have this note at the bottom: "Coil springs run approximately 1/2" over advertised height on JK/JL"

So 1.5" + 0.5" + 2-door mystery height increase = ~2.5"? This is why I say spacers are better at lower lift heights. It gets exactly the height you want.

 

[DewHawk]

Clayton is 160 Front, 137-200 rear (progressive). Stock is probably around 130-140 front (stiffer than JLUR), 172-176 rear (same as JLUR).

Check the Spring Rates tab here.

Would be interesting to see how much variance there is with the stock 2dr JLR springs vs the JLUR. Based on what you're saying for Clayton and what I'm seeing vs what I've experienced, I still feel confident in my assessment and my suggestions to this point. Those spring rates are definitely on the firmer side up front compared to stock and even Teraflex. It does look like they've got kind of a mixed approach to their springs though with linear up front and progressive in the back which is interesting.

 

[rohdawg]

That's all well and good, but has anyone actually checked to see what the spring rates are on these new right right systems? It seems to me based on their expected height increases that they're just packaging their existing springs with less parts to bring the cost down.

1. I checked their spring rates obsessively before I pulled the trigger on a set up from them, so yes… someone has.
That’s why provided a link so people can read it for themselves and make their own decisions.

2. The Clayton springs/kits are application specific and not “just packaging their existing springs with less parts to bring the cost down.”

 

[DewHawk]

1. I checked their spring rates obsessively before I pulled the trigger on a set up from them, so yes… someone has.
That’s why provided a link so people can read it for themselves and make their own decisions.

2. The Clayton springs/kits are application specific and not “just packaging their existing springs with less parts to bring the cost down.”

Fair enough. To each their own, but I still stand by my recommendation based on the 3 different spring manufacturers I've gone through to date.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Would be interesting to see how much variance there is with the stock 2dr JLR springs vs the JLUR. Based on what you're saying for Clayton and what I'm seeing vs what I've experienced, I still feel confident in my assessment and my suggestions to this point. Those spring rates are definitely on the firmer side up front compared to stock and even Teraflex. It does look like they've got kind of a mixed approach to their springs though with linear up front and progressive in the back which is interesting.

I have JLUR front springs in my JLR (similar options/specs), and the 2-door springs are definitely stiffer. This is likely an intentional design as the shorter wheelbase alters the ride frequency. FWIW: the JT front rates might be a good match for a 2-door, and even get the desired lift (with 4-door rear springs). Or we could just wait for the 2-door XR to be released.

Here's a related post: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/spring-rates.16491/#post-406322

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