Power cutoff for Winch

[TheRaven]

That's a 400a rated distribution block, not a fuse. Even if it's a fuseible link they often cause major damage when they melt when they are that large. I'm willing to bet there are far more unfused winches than under fused running 250A fuses on 400+A rated winches.

Underneath that black plastic bridge there, is a single passage that can carry 400A. You know, like a fuse? If one of those things blows you do have to replace that whole plate though.

Also running a 250A fuse on a winch capable of pulling 400A isn't underfusing. You spent several posts explaining how fuses can run well above their rating for quit a bit of time...a 250A fuse will allow 400A to pass for plenty long enough to overheat a winch. My reason for those examples was to show that 250A works fine as a fuse for a full-size vehicle winch. Just like I said before - the disconnect that Warn recommends for their winches is rated 200A continuous. I've been using it without issue. The starter on my Silverado will pretty easily exceed 400A but i've never heard of anyone blowing that fuse either. A winch can draw 400-500A but can't sustain that for very long.

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[Terrymo]

Underneath that black plastic bridge there, is a single passage that can carry 400A. You know, like a fuse? If one of those things blows you do have to replace that whole plate though.

Also running a 250A fuse on a winch capable of pulling 400A isn't underfusing. You spent several posts explaining how fuses can run well above their rating for quit a bit of time...a 250A fuse will allow 400A to pass for plenty long enough to overheat a winch. My reason for those examples was to show that 250A works fine as a fuse for a full-size vehicle winch. Just like I said before - the disconnect that Warn recommends for their winches is rated 200A continuous. I've been using it without issue. The starter on my Silverado will pretty easily exceed 400A but i've never heard of anyone blowing that fuse either. A winch can draw 400-500A but can't sustain that for very long.

Just curious how it differs from the Z case fuse array we have.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Underneath that black plastic bridge there, is a single passage that can carry 400A. You know, like a fuse? If one of those things blows you do have to replace that whole plate though.

Also running a 250A fuse on a winch capable of pulling 400A isn't underfusing. You spent several posts explaining how fuses can run well above their rating for quit a bit of time...a 250A fuse will allow 400A to pass for plenty long enough to overheat a winch. My reason for those examples was to show that 250A works fine as a fuse for a full-size vehicle winch. Just like I said before - the disconnect that Warn recommends for their winches is rated 200A continuous. I've been using it without issue. The starter on my Silverado will pretty easily exceed 400A but i've never heard of anyone blowing that fuse either. A winch can draw 400-500A but can't sustain that for very long.

It is under fusing if you look at the chart where it says "working area"... unless 125%-150% of 250A is 420A. Since you're making up facts and ignoring every winch manufacturer or OEM winch installed ever I guess you can reinvent math too? Most starters on most vehicles aren't fused either... nor do they run for minutes at a time. Sure I might overheat my winch in a hard pull and it will stall... which is exactly where I want the limiter to be.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Actually, Ramsey winches come with a fuse bar on the power cable to protect the winch and vehicle from possible damage.
Superwinch doesn’t come with a fuse but they do recommend one.
Consider, if you have a head on collision with a vehicle or wildlife and crushes your winch, what’s the chances it will crush the or cut the cables a damage the winch top solenoids.

Which Ramsey winches because I can't find it? The patriot series manual doesn't show or mention it and worse I can't find a replacement part available? One time use winch seems like a great idea. Is it a fuseable link at the winch motor? If that's the case the lines from the battery still aren't fused. Not seeing the recommended fusing from superwinch either. Read both companies install manuals, it's not there. Again what size fuse would you use? If it's properly sized for the full load capacity of the winch your battery won't put out enough power to trip it even if you hit a mechanic deer that bolts the hot lead to the ground wire.

 

[Jtphoto]

Which Ramsey winches because I can't find it? The patriot series manual doesn't show or mention it and worse I can't find a replacement part available? One time use winch seems like a great idea. Is it a fuseable link at the winch motor? If that's the case the lines from the battery still aren't fused. Not seeing the recommended fusing from superwinch either. Read both companies install manuals, it's not there. Again what size fuse would you use? If it's properly sized for the full load capacity of the winch your battery won't put out enough power to trip it even if you hit a mechanic deer that bolts the hot lead to the ground wire.

These circuit breakers are mounted to the battery post then the power cable bolted to them. Yes there is alway power to the line with them so I prefer a total cut out. But better than nothing.
Superwinch https://www.superwinch.com/circuit-...0/?searchid=2184&search_query=Circuit+breaker

Apparently Ramsey no longer includes a circuit breaker. I did find a PN on eBay but says no longer available

Bottom line, it’s your choice. I’ve hardwired many different winches and seen the damage if they short out. Never had one of mine short but there is always that chance. Manufactures seem secure in the fact it will never happen but at the end of the day the liability will fall on the installer.

 

[Zandcwhite]

These circuit breakers are mounted to the battery post then the power cable bolted to them. Yes there is alway power to the line with them so I prefer a total cut out. But better than nothing.
Superwinch https://www.superwinch.com/circuit-...0/?searchid=2184&search_query=Circuit+breaker

Apparently Ramsey no longer includes a circuit breaker. I did find a PN on eBay but says no longer available

Bottom line, it’s your choice. I’ve hardwired many different winches and seen the damage if they short out. Never had one of mine short but there is always that chance. Manufactures seem secure in the fact it will never happen but at the end of the day the liability will fall on the installer.

The fact they sell a product doesn't mean they recommend it for a standard bumper mounted front winch installed. The same way Warn has the power interupter kit in the rear cradle winch accessories I see the concern when its just wiring and no winch most of the time.

 

[Jtphoto]

The fact they sell a product doesn't mean they recommend it for a standard bumper mounted front winch installed. The same way Warn has the power interupter kit in the rear cradle winch accessories I see the concern when its just wiring and no winch most of the time.

I’ll admit, It’s been a few years since I installed a winch that came with a circuit breaker. The fact that they are/were available same as Warns own power interrupt switch makes one wonder.
The manufacturer is not liable for the instal so what do they care, it’s just less cost for them.
Again you do you, whatever makes you happy.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I’ll admit, It’s been a few years since I installed a winch that came with a circuit breaker. The fact that they are/were available same as Warns own power interrupt switch makes one wonder.
The manufacturer is not liable for the instal so what do they care, it’s just less cost for them.
Again you do you, whatever makes you happy.

Less cost to include it for sure. Of course it would be easy profits if you strongly suggested it your manual (with a convenient part number listed next to it). The only winch manufacturer I could find selling a winch fuse and holder is Sherpa4x4...and its 500A. I guarantee you could wire 1 side to the positive post and the other side to the negative post of a fully charged battery and it wouldn't pop that fuse. If your wires melt before your fuse pops, what's the point of the fuse again? False sense of security. I see the argument for a switch if it is something you're concerned about, but over current protection has too large a window to be reliable and still functional.

 

[Jtphoto]

Less cost to include it for sure. Of course it would be easy profits if you strongly suggested it your manual (with a convenient part number listed next to it).

. I guarantee you could wire 1 side to the positive post and the other side to the negative post of a fully charged battery and it wouldn't pop that fuse. If your wires melt before your fuse pops, what's the point of the fuse again? False sense of security. I see the argument for a switch if it is something you're concerned about, but over current protection has too large a window to be reliable and still functional.

If they strongly recommend the use of a power disconnect then people would complain why it’s not included.

I do agree that a fuse or circuit breaker that high is of no help but a false sense of security. I believe the Superwinch model was 250a.

 

[jadmt]

any factory installed winch goes straight to the battery (includes jeep, ram and ford) you would think with all the NHTSA standards and rules you think they would mandate something if it were a problem.

 

[Mguy]

any factory installed winch goes straight to the battery (includes jeep, ram and ford) you would think with all the NHTSA standards and rules you think they would mandate something if it were a problem.

With all the participation by interested parties in drafting safety regulations, it takes a while before those all powerfull government agencies get around to actual rules. Seat belts come to mind.

While there may be good reasons to avoid automatic devices (fuses and circuit breakers), any rationale for excluding manual devices (switches) is greatly diminished when it comes to front end installation in vehicles with combustible fuel.

 

[Zandcwhite]

With all the participation by interested parties in drafting safety regulations, it takes a while before those all powerfull government agencies get around to actual rules. Seat belts come to mind.

While there may be good reasons to avoid automatic devices (fuses and circuit breakers), any rationale for excluding manual devices (switches) is greatly diminished when it comes to front end installation in vehicles with combustible fuel.

Every accident I've seen bad enough to smash a winch bumper and winch through the grill generally ends up with the battery not in the tray. It's held in by a plastic clip and a single tiny bolt. At that point the odds of a short via the terminals, torn up wiring, or even crushed or cut open battery are just as likely. Batteries don't turn off period. Wether your leads run from the battery to the fuse box, a power disconnect before the winch, a fuse, or anything else there will always be potential. Adding a plastic disconnect switch or solenoid held to the fender with a couple tiny screws may even increase the odds of a short when the battery rips out of the mount. If it makes you feel good, run one. There are reasons why OEMs don't and most winch manufacturers don't either that aren't simply cost.

 

[Wabujitsu]

You do realize that large scale battery UPS systems (480V+, 4000A) are also hardwired without fuses right? And only an idiot is adding that quick disconnect on their bumper mounted winch. Extra cost, added failure point, no gain. Again you're misinterpreting the existence of a product with the recommendation of its use. No, they don't recommend a disconnect for hard wired bumper mounted winches period. Not in the literature and not if you call them and ask. But what do I know, only 25+ years of commercial/industrial electrical experience...

Zach, am I an “idiot” for following my Apex winch install instructions? The supplied cut-off switch is listed on THREE warning pages of the manual. This page explains why.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Zach, am I an “idiot” for following my Apex winch install instructions? The supplied cut-off switch is listed on THREE warning pages of the manual. This page explains why.

Again... only slower. I said running a power cutoff switch or solenoid AND the Warn quick disconnect plugs together on a hard mounted winch is something only an idiot would do. As I've started 50 times already running a disconnect switch is no problem if you want to. Most winch manufacturers not only don't include one they don't recommend one either. I'm well aware that harbor freight includes them. I can see why you may want to run a switch. There's no reason to add additional failure points of quick disconnect plugs, especially in conjunction with a switch. You need to unplug your dead wires from your hard mounted winch?

 

[Wabujitsu]

Again... only slower. I said running a power cutoff switch or solenoid AND the Warn quick disconnect plugs together on a hard mounted winch is something only an idiot would do. As I've started 50 times already running a disconnect switch is no problem if you want to. Most winch manufacturers not only don't include one they don't recommend one either. I'm well aware that harbor freight includes them. I can see why you may want to run a switch. There's no reason to add additional failure points of quick disconnect plugs, especially in conjunction with a switch. You need to unplug your dead wires from your hard mounted winch?

Zach, thanks for the “slow” clarification! I’m only on my second cup of coffee…

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