Performing Own Oil Changes

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I posted the Valvoline link from my phone and did not catch that it was "recommended" (sorry about that). However, that prompted me to look a few different oils and left me wondering if any of them are actually approved for MS-6395 or just recommended. Pennzoil, Quaker State, and Rotella left me guessing as well since they group it as "Specifications, Approvals, and Recommendations" and do not denote which is which.

Amsoil Signature Series:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

Amsoil XL:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g1404.pdf

Amsoil OE:
https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/databulletins/g3404.pdf

Castrol Edge:
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...748B3408025855F005E59CE/$File/wepp-bpem24.pdf

Castrol Edge Extended:
https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/...2AB5E8B80257E7D006877B9/$File/BPXE-9C77UN.pdf

Havoline ProDS:
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=518483&docFormat=PDF

Kendall GT-1:
https://kendallmotoroil.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/GT-1_Dexos1_Full_Synthetic_Gen2.pdf

Mobil Super Synthetic:
https://www.mobil.com/en-US/Passenger-Vehicle-Lube/pds/GL-XX-Mobil-Super-Synthetic

Pennzoil Platinum
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/cc51c15a-3de3-4ac2-9b30-caa71a9fe89b.pdf

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum:
https://www.shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/e847d1bf-da55-4b8f-8bd2-ed73c21c2e06.pdf

Quaker State Ultimate Durability:
https://www.quakerstate.com/en_us/p...05c543ac9bcb300/0w-20-synthetic-motor-oil.pdf

Ravenol:
https://www.ravenol.de/en/product-range/motor-oils-for-passenger-cars-1/ravenol-dfe-sae-0w-20/
https://www.ravenol.de/en/product-range/motor-oils-for-passenger-cars-1/ravenol-ecs-sae-0w-20/

Royal Purple:
https://www.royalpurple.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/RP-PDS-API-Motor-Oil-2019-v2.pdf

Shell Rotella Gas Truck:
https://rotella.shell.com/en_us/products/gas-truck-synthetic-engine-oil.html#read

Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic:
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd3/3aa410a1-0bbd-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

Valvoline Modern Engine:
https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publ...2d889bd1/dd7306bd-0ee0-e711-9c12-ac162d889bd1

I don’t think there’s such a thing as bad 0w20, but for you guys who are into oil debates this is the thread for you: Dumping factory fill. What oil is everyone running?

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[Formattc]

I actually had to back Valvoline into a corner to get to the root of it. Someone else had already posed the question as to whether or not it "met" MS-6395, and they said it did. I asked if it actually has the manufacturer's approval, and they admitted that it doesn't.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I don’t think there’s such a thing as bad 0w20, but for you guys who are into oil debates this is the thread for you: Dumping factory fill. What oil is everyone running?

Yeah; that thread went a bit off the rails and became an Amsoil propaganda store front full of trollish bovine scatology.

I found an older copy of the Material Specification (MS-6395) and saved it on my GDrive (link below). It does not appear to be a very difficult specification to meet and am confident that any of the oils I listed in the other post meet it.

 

[Formattc]

I guess I'm just going to buy Pennzoil for now. This is a very early oil change (500-600 miles) so it won't be in there long anyway. I'll be changing again at 2000 miles, then 5,000 and every 5,000 after. I'll keep researching in the meantime and hopefully some of the other brands will get the approval.

 

[mgroeger]

OK, this stuff really has me questioning buying a Jeep product. I messaged Valvoline support and this was the response:

"The Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic SAE 0W-20 Motor Oil is not a manufacturer approved oil. However, it has been tested against all the specifications and we stand behind the use of this product for the MS-6395 specification."

For a Jeep Wrangler it looks like Pennzoil or nothing. What a frikken' nightmarish hassle!

Have a beer and a Xanax bro... lol. History... FCA used to run Mobil One now they run Pennzoil, why's that you asked? It has to deal with getting a good deal on product, they had a falling out with Mobil I heard. Valvoline knows they aren't an FCA "approved" brand so they can't say they are. They also know they make an excellent product that will perform well in ANY engine and that's what they are telling you. You aren't going to void any warranties by running what brand you want. Heck even Walmart oil is decent. Who do you think makes all of the off brands? The big names do and slap "Johnny's Crab House Oil" labels on them.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I've been a Mobil 1 guy for over 20 years. Probably more out of convenience and no problems than anything. So I just went to their site and used the oil selector engine they have. It displayed 3 of their oils, all 0w-20: Mobil Super Synthetic, Mobil Full Synthetic, and Mobil Full Synthetic High Mileage.

What's interesting is the language they use for the titles of their charts: "This product has the following approvals:", This product is recommended for use in applications requiring the following:", and "This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:".

Unfortunately, I didn't take the time to look into this before I changed the oil a couple thousand miles ago. I used the M1 Extended Performance High Mileage, which has no reference to our Chrysler MS spec. Looks like I should change it out early.

 

[Hootbro]

Reminds me of the Tweek character on South Park. Spazzing on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I guess I'm just going to buy Pennzoil for now. This is a very early oil change (500-600 miles) so it won't be in there long anyway. I'll be changing again at 2000 miles, then 5,000 and every 5,000 after. I'll keep researching in the meantime and hopefully some of the other brands will get the approval.

@Formattc - one thing to note is also FCA's careful wording:

We RECOMMEND you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Mopar,Pennzoil, and Shell Helix.

Recommend is NOT the same as require--if it were, FCA would have to provide the oil they require you to use. In addition, this leaves it open to using any API certified oil. Last, but not least, look at the wording for the oil for the 2.0L engine:

Equivalent full synthetic SAE 5W-30 engine oil can be used if it meets API SN PLUS Certification.

This begs the question if the 2.0L can use any API SN+ oil (not necessarily one meeting MS-13340), then why can't the 3.6L do the same? I firmly believe that you can and use whatever API SN 0W-20 oil you like.

 

[roaniecowpony]

@Formattc - one thing to note is also FCA's careful wording:

We RECOMMEND you use API Certified SAE 0W-20 Engine Oil, meeting the requirements of FCA Material Standard MS-6395 such as Mopar,Pennzoil, and Shell Helix.

Recommend is NOT the same as require--if it were, FCA would have to provide the oil they require you to use. In addition, this leaves it open to using any API certified oil. Last, but not least, look at the wording for the oil for the 2.0L engine:

Equivalent full synthetic SAE 5W-30 engine oil can be used if it meets API SN PLUS Certification.

This begs the question if the 2.0L can use any API SN+ oil (not necessarily one meeting MS-13340), then why can't the 3.6L do the same? I firmly believe that you can and use whatever API SN 0W-20 oil you like.

They use "recommend" because they cannot require anything regarding your vehicle. It's your vehicle. If you use bacon fat in your engine and the MAF sensor fails, they would be in violation of consumer laws if they denied warranty on the MAF. However, if the camshaft fails, they would contend that you used a lubricant that led to the camshaft failure. If you find a boutique oil maker that has developed the miracle oil of all time, but has no approvals and your camshaft failed while using it, be prepared to get into a legal battle with FCA over warranty of the engine. The point is: if you don't do what they recommend, you may be put on the defensive if you have a warranty claim. So you have to ask yourself: "why do that?"

 

[CarbonSteel]

They use "recommend" because they cannot require anything regarding your vehicle. It's your vehicle. If you use bacon fat in your engine and the MAF sensor fails, they would be in violation of consumer laws if they denied warranty on the MAF. However, if the camshaft fails, they would contend that you used a lubricant that led to the camshaft failure. If you find a boutique oil maker that has developed the miracle oil of all time, but has no approvals and your camshaft failed while using it, be prepared to get into a legal battle with FCA over warranty of the engine. The point is: if you don't do what they recommend, you may be put on the defensive if you have a warranty claim. So you have to ask yourself: "why do that?"

Agree; except the overarching umbrella is API certified (SN or SN+) and not MS-6395 and MS-13340. FCA would have a heck of a time defending the position of allowing non MS-xxxxx specified oil for one engine and not another. This is particularly true when the engine they allow non MS-xxxxx oil to be used has statements in the owner's manual like this:

CAUTION!
Failure to use the recommended SN PLUS or equivalent oil can cause engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty.​

Which suggests the SN+ is far more important than the MS-13340 because it is not specified and the word "equivalent" is there. In the end, many times it is all semantics on the part of the wording.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Agree; except the overarching umbrella is API certified (SN or SN+) and not MS-6395 and MS-13340. FCA would have a heck of a time defending the position of allowing non MS-xxxxx specified oil for one engine and not another. This is particularly true when the engine they allow non MS-xxxxx oil to be used has statements in the owner's manual like this:

CAUTION!
Failure to use the recommended SN PLUS or equivalent oil can cause engine damage not covered by the vehicle warranty.​

Which suggests the SN+ is far more important than the MS-13340 because it is not specified and the word "equivalent" is there. In the end, many times it is all semantics on the part of the wording.

No doubt all the language was the product of lawyers. My point was that if you have an engine issue where oil might be a factor and it comes to light that you were using an oil that does not have the specification approval or a reputable manufacturer's "meets or exceeds" statement, the vehicle maker might well decline warranty coverage, leaving you to prove the oil is "equivalent". I have an idea of what a lawyer and laboratory testing costs and I wouldn't want to use my money to do that just to get an engine fixed. It might be cheaper to buy a salvage engine and pay to have it installed.

 

[Formattc]

No doubt all the language was the product of lawyers. My point was that if you have an engine issue where oil might be a factor and it comes to light that you were using an oil that does not have the specification approval or a reputable manufacturer's "meets or exceeds" statement, the vehicle maker might well decline warranty coverage, leaving you to prove the oil is "equivalent". I have an idea of what a lawyer and laboratory testing costs and I wouldn't want to use my money to do that just to get an engine fixed. It might be cheaper to buy a salvage engine and pay to have it installed.

Exactly, and I have experience with a Magnuson-Moss lawsuit in 2002. I had early failure of front end components because the factory installed clogged grease fittings and they were bone dry, and they still tried to fight me, but ultimately lost.

PS: I grease my own front end now, ever since then. I literally count the fittings on my new car and memorize the number so I hit every one every time.

 

[CarbonSteel]

My point was that if you have an engine issue where oil might be a factor and it comes to light that you were using an oil that does not have the specification approval or a reputable manufacturer's "meets or exceeds" statement, the vehicle maker might well decline warranty coverage, leaving you to prove the oil is "equivalent".

I agree with you! The good news is with the exception of Amsoil, every popular 0W-20 oil listed in the thread below has the statement of "meets or exceeds" or "recommended" in their PDS with regards to the MS-6395 standard. Amsoil states "Use AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil in applications that require any of the following specifications".

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/performing-own-oil-changes.50536/page-3#post-1112741

 

[2020Sport]

I agree with you! The good news is with the exception of Amsoil, every popular 0W-20 oil listed in the thread below has the statement of "meets or exceeds" or "recommended" in their PDS with regards to the MS-6395 standard. Amsoil states "Use AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic Motor Oil in applications that require any of the following specifications".

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/performing-own-oil-changes.50536/page-3#post-1112741

Which is fine. In fact AMSOIL has the new and improved certified API SP and has been using that formulation for quite a long time. Remember, the OEM warranty only covers manufacturer defects and not oil related failures. This is why it is important that you select an oil which warranties all lubricated parts against oil failure, in and out of warranty, which of course AMSOIL has for 47 years with no issues.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Which is fine. In fact AMSOIL has the new and improved certified API SP and has been using that formulation for quite a long time. Remember, the OEM warranty only covers manufacturer defects and not oil related failures. This is why it is important that you select an oil which warranties all lubricated parts against oil failure, in and out of warranty, which of course AMSOIL has for 47 years with no issues.

You seriously need to can the sales pitch--guys like you leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth regarding Amsoil on forums everywhere. You probably should be forced to register as a vendor at this point since nearly every post you have made to date has the word "Amsoil" in it. You are not fooling anyone...

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