Most capable Rubicon?

[Outrun]

I will say that our 392 was less capable than our 3.6 JLUR in mud, deep water and climbing. And it's all because of the weight.

However, I wouldn't trade my 392 and go back.

I wonder why that is because it's not that much heavier.
All the motor swapped JL's or other rigs out there are just as heavy or heavier and seem to have no issues. Many of them getting close to 7K lbs.

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[AnnDee4444]

Has anyone done the torque conversion of a 3.6 Rubi compared to the 392 while they are both in 4low? It's probably close considering crawl ratios?

Peak math is easy, although the difference in torque is even larger in the 3-4K rpms. 392 is 470ftlbs x 2.72x3.73x4.7 1st gear=22,412ftlbs at the axle. 3.6L is 269ftlbsx4x4.1x4.7= 20,734ftlbs. Not a huge difference at peak torque. From dyno chart averages, at 3500 rpm the 392 is putting out 410ftlbs at the wheels or 19,570 with gearing. The 3.6L is putting out 210 ftlbs at that rpm, or 16,187 with gearing. 18% more power for the 392. Don’t the 392 xr’s come with the same 4.56 gearing though? Being this thread is about most capable we should be talking XR package (not available on 2 doors, giving both 4 doors another advantage in this poll btw). The math with both geared 4.56 extends the 392 out to ~24% more torque in lo range.

I know the 2.0s are torque limited in 4-low, and would expect the 3.6 and especially diesel & 392 to be limited as well.

 

[VKSheridan]

Hate to necro a thread but I just asked my wife which is more capable.

She said, “It doesn’t matter if you know how to drive what you’re in”.

Damn. I think she just punked all of us who voted.….

 

[west tex]

Most capable Rubicon?

Excuse this 80th Edition owner for adding his 2 bits.

But isn't the answer, "XR"?

 

[aldo98229]

Excuse this 80th Edition owner for adding his 2 bits.

But isn't the answer, "XR"?

I saw someone tested XR’s articulation on a dealer lot: it turned out to be quite a bit less than that on a stock Rubicon.

XR looks great, but those giant bump stops severely limit flex.

 

[west tex]

I saw someone tested XR’s articulation on a dealer lot: it turned out to be quite a bit less than that on a stock Rubicon.

XR looks great, but those giant bump stops severely limit flex.

So, it's just the marketeers at work again?

 

[aldo98229]

So, it's just the marketeers at work again?

Partly...

Just my opinion: Jeep got caught with its pants down when Bronco announced a factory 35-inch tire package, and had to respond quickly. As a consequence, XR was rushed through its development. Something had to give; it looks like the suspension was it.

Having said that, XR offers a great base from which to start. Many XR owners are replacing those bumpstops and shocks already.

I would expect the 2023 mid-cycle redesign to include a more sorted-out suspension with the XR package.

 

[viper88]

You better be carrying extra fuel with a 392.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I saw someone tested XR’s articulation on a dealer lot: it turned out to be quite a bit less than that on a stock Rubicon.

XR looks great, but those giant bump stops severely limit flex.

Ultimate capability is a multi-layered question. The XR gives up some articulation but has the advantage in gearing, ground clearance, approach/departure/breakover angles, water fording, and traction thanks to the larger footprint. With lockers one could argue that suspension travel is less important. Obviously terrain and wheeling style play a huge factor. If I had to wheel a bone stock jeep and never mod it, I'd still choose a 392XR for all its advantages. If I'm allowed to mod, the starting point is irrelevant depending on the build plan and how much work I want to do. I'm more than happy with the 2.0t in our Rubicon, with all the mods we've done I can use all 12.3" of travel in the rocksport shocks front and rear so lifting a tire is rare. With the 4" of lift and 38's clearance, traction, etc are leaps and bounds over stock. Knowing how I like my Jeep built, and the fact that I can't justify putting $100k into an off road toy, I'd either build another 2.0t or go 4xe thanks to the massive tax incentives, both of which eliminate the XR option anyway.

 

[west tex]

Partly...

Just my opinion: Jeep got caught with its pants down when Bronco announced a factory 35-inch tire package, and had to respond quickly. As a consequence, XR was rushed through its development. Something had to give; it looks like the suspension was it.

Having said that, XR offers a great base from which to start. Many XR owners are replacing those bumpstops and shocks already.

I would expect the 2023 mid-cycle redesign to include a more sorted-out suspension with the XR package.

So, instead of a well-thought out engineering/product development project, it WAS mostly a knee-jerk reaction and move by Jeep's marketing dept in response to the Bronco.

 

[aldo98229]

So, instead of a well-thought out engineering/product development project, it WAS mostly a knee-jerk reaction and move by Jeep's marketing dept in response to the Bronco.

You say “marketing” as if it were a bad word. Marketing is a business function, just like engineering and manufacturing, with a very specific role to play.

I doubt “marketing” was in charge of developing XR; that is product development and engineering’s role.

Yes, I believe XR was a last-minute decision, but it was pushed by top management onto engineering, who had only however many weeks to accomplish the project.

 

[Zandcwhite]

So, instead of a well-thought out engineering/product development project, it WAS mostly a knee-jerk reaction and move by Jeep's marketing dept in response to the Bronco.

I think that's kind of over played. In the initial press releases Jeep themselves stated 35's would fit on the Rubicon so I'd argue it was always designed with that in mind. Putting the same bump stops that they use on the diesels for engine clearance to insure the tires never rub on an XR is hardly a stop gap. It's an designed and tested product over hundreds of thousands of miles. Since the first 4x4's, there are 4 ways to run larger tires. 1. Remove sheetmetal for clearance
2. Limit uptravel
3. Lift the body above the frame
4. Add more lift(and still limit uptravel to avoid rubbing)
#1 and 3 were not going to happen, #4 limits buyers as many do not want to have to climb up into their new Jeep. Virtually every lift kit on the market includes longer bump stops for the same reason. Just because the aftermarket ones bolt to the axle and jeep chose to simply extend the bump towers doesn't make one better or worse, different ways to accomplish the same goal. The beauty of the XR is that when you add lift and 37's, there no need to add bump stop extensions. Add longer shocks for more down travel and viola, your jeep flexes better than any stock model.

 

[aldo98229]

BTW - for better or worse, marketing appears to be a competitive weakness at FCA, and a competitive strength at Ford.

Part of the issue with Bronco is precisely that Ford’s marketing team is a lot stronger than Ford’s engineering and manufacturing teams. The end result is one of the most brilliant marketing campaigns in the last 50 years, and an engineering, a manufacturing and a distribution organizations that struggle delivering on the promises the marketing team has made.

 

[west tex]

You keep throwing around “marketing” as if it were a bad word. Marketing is a business function, just like engineering and manufacturing, with a very specific role to play.

It's not a bad word.

But it's all pervasive intrusion into our lives is something I kinda object to.

YMMV.

I doubt “marketing” was in charge of developing XR; that is product development and engineering’s role.

Yes, I believe XR was a last-minute decision, but it was pushed by top management onto engineering, who had only however many weeks to accomplish it.

I suspect the marketeers urged top mgt to force engineering to put out "something" ASAP to pump up sales.

Judging from the reaction to the XR, looks like it worked. And the customer base for that pkg will be the beta testers.

 

[aldo98229]

It's not a bad word.

But it's all pervasive intrusion into our lives is something I kinda object to.

YMMV.


I suspect the marketeers urged top mgt to force engineering to put out "something" ASAP to pump up sales.

Judging from the reaction to the XR, looks like it worked. And the customer base for that pkg will be the beta testers.

Yes, I agree: XR has worked.

But part of the strong market response to XR has come from the fact that Jeep has starved us of significant off-road innovations for the last 20 years.

XR is not even an “innovation”, but as the saying goes, “beggars can’t be choosers.”

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