Mods please delete

[Zandcwhite]

OBVIOUSLY when I was talking about "the future" in the context of automobile powerplants I was not talking about hundreds or thousands of years from now. I can't even wrap my head around your approach to discussion - I have no idea why anyone would take it that way. Nor can I imagine why anyone would think that a 4-cylinder turbo motor, a concept which has been prevalent for more than two decades already and existed as far back as the 1960s could be called "the future". We all know whether we like it or not, EVs are our future.

You and I are never going to be able to debate with utility. Your obsession over minutiae turns every discussion into a brain-melting bore-fest . I think we just need to accept that and shake hands.

So the fact that small displacement turbo engines have been around since the 1960s means they aren't the future? EVs have been around since the 1800s, so much for the future? "Crude electric carriages were first invented in the late 1820s and 1830s. Practical, commercially available electric vehicles appeared during the 1890s. An electric vehicle held the vehicular land speed record until around 1900." The near future of production vehicles is obviously small displacement turbos just looking at production numbers for 2024 and vehicles available for 2025 (which is in fact the future). Distant future is being pushed towards the EV direction for sure, but with Ford walking back their EV predictions already, that future seems to be moving further away. With other manufacturers focusing on hydrogen fuel cells, I wouldn't guarantee we see an all EV future, but it is possible. We may see personal aircraft drones before we see a 100% EV market at this rate.

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[TheRaven]

Why are you now trying to rewrite history? Is this not what you clearly (yes, clearly) stated back in The Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Twenty One in regards to the 2023 model year changes? That was not a 2024 prediction thread as you're now erroneously trying to claim. Even if it was, your "definitely" predictions would still be blatantly wrong.

Maybe you subsequently backtracked, admitted you were wrong, changed the prediction to 2024, and removed all of the "definitely" errors?

I dunno, whatever. I can't take the pedantics anymore.

 

[yokramer]

I dunno, whatever. I can't take the pedantics anymore.

 

[TheRaven]

So the fact that small displacement turbo engines have been around since the 1960s means they aren't the future?

No, the fact that they are already here in huge numbers, fully mature and useable by anyone who chooses to use them, IN ADDITION to the fact that they've been around since the 1960's.

"Crude electric carriages" are not EVs.

If you're going to start on the clinging to irrelevant little details too then i'm out.

 

[jeepingib]

Why are you now trying to rewrite history? Is this not what you clearly (yes, clearly) stated back in The Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Twenty One in regards to the 2023 model year changes? That was not a 2024 prediction thread as you're now erroneously trying to claim. Even if it was, your "definitely" predictions would still be blatantly wrong.



Maybe you subsequently backtracked, admitted you were wrong, changed the prediction to 2024, and removed all of the "definitely" errors?

I can promise you that he did not. And that is the crux of my issue with him. We all make mistakes. But you have to admit it when proved.

 

[Zandcwhite]

No, the fact that they are already here in huge numbers, fully mature and useable by anyone who chooses to use them, IN ADDITION to the fact that they've been around since the 1960's.

"Crude electric carriages" are not EVs.

If you're going to start on the clinging to irrelevant little details too then i'm out.

EVs are also here and useable by anyone who chooses? Frito lay has an entire fleet of tesla rigs that I see everyday. Amazon's huge fleet of rivian built EVs. Ford lightning, Mach e, etc. Our Uber to a concert Saturday was a polestar. Kia EV6s destroying Ferrari v12s in the 1/4mile at 1/10th the price tag. If that's not a fully matured powertrain, I'd hate to see what is? BMW, GM, Volkswagen, and many others offering full EV vehicles. Hundreds of thousands of tesla's. If being currently available makes it not the future, EVs are out too. You're arguments don't make sense.

 

[jeepingib]

No, the fact that they are already here in huge numbers, fully mature and useable by anyone who chooses to use them, IN ADDITION to the fact that they've been around since the 1960's.

"Crude electric carriages" are not EVs.

If you're going to start on the clinging to irrelevant little details too then i'm out.

Take your ball and go on then.

 

[yokramer]

Take your ball and go on then.

 

[yokramer]

I can promise you that he did not. And that is the crux of my issue with him. We all make mistakes. But you have to admit it when proved.

And even his "I admitted I was wrong on the manual 2.0" all he did was admit his "memory could be wrong" not that he WAS wrong.

 

[jeepingib]

To think that I've been associated with those heathens from NC who don't even understand the definition of BBQ is a step too far.

 

[grimmjeeper]

If you're going to start on the clinging to irrelevant little details too then i'm out.

 

[Ratbert]

I dunno, whatever. I can't take the pedantics anymore.

Ok, so you didn't say stupid shit back in 2021 about the 2023 model year (that never happened) and refused to back down about, and are now changing that to the 2024 model year (that never happened)? Should we expect the same revisionist history in 2025? I'll need to preorder some popcorn.

But I guess we're supposed to let all of your obvious mistakes slide. Hell, I make mistakes too.

 

[TheRaven]

EVs are also here and useable by anyone who chooses?

Unless you don't have a place to charge or can't afford a model that has the range you need.

That's a massive chunk of the population currently.

And EVs are not "fully matured". They have comparatively primitive energy storage tech...this is just the "first draft" of what EVs will become. They are limited, and full of issues. That will change very quickly in the coming decades. By comparison small turbo engines are extremely mature and will not see that level of advancement.

 

[yokramer]

To think that I've been associated with those heathens from NC who don't even understand the definition of BBQ is a step too far.

 

[AnnDee4444]

I'm not sure @AnnDee4444 was refuting my logic there, but I'll let him confirm or deny that.

I was commenting on this:
"there's no meaningful slippage of the converter even though it's well under stall"

I think it's worth pointing out that the torque converter efficiency is not good when unlocked... actual geared reduction is a more efficient way of transferring power.


I also find it funny that the manual transmission JL always gets praise for it's better gear reduction, while ignoring the minimum 2x reduction from a torque converter. Yes, you can slip the clutch... but not all day long like an automatic.

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