Metalcloak lock-n-load vs Game changer

[XtremeRetard]

Good info..

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[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

Is that a DB3'd rear?

Never heard the term, but my suspension is soft and it may look like I have a Carolina squat, but I dont. LOL

The passenger side for reference.

 

[GATORB8]

Never heard the term, but my suspension is soft and it may look like I have a Carolina squat, but I dont. LOL

The passenger side for reference.

The DB3 is the option where you use the standard arms with geo brackets. Those are definitely long arms, lol.

 

[XtremeRetard]

Ok, so i get long arm angles remain better over the suspension arc.

But surely the most important angle is the one at ride height, when geo and long are near the same. That's where bumps and obstacle climbing first start ..

Sure you get flex after that, but higher angles imply lower load on that end of the axle.

 

[GATORB8]

Ok, so i get long arm angles remain better over the suspension arc.

But surely the most important angle is the one at ride height, when geo and long are near the same. That's where bumps and obstacle climbing first start ..

Sure you get flex after that, but higher angles imply lower load on that end of the axle.

So it’s not necessarily the angle that matters, it’s where the angle puts you in the travel arc from the diagrams.

The examples aren’t necessarily JL based, but let’s use them anyway. The 12” represents travel, so think of ride height at 6”. At that point the stock arm example is in a place on the arc that moves front/back pretty quickly.

 

[Yellow Cake Kid]

Here are some more generalized illustrations comparing the movement of rear lower control arms.

I would like to accurately locate the frame pivot points so that the illustrations can be more pertinent, but I have not done so.

I would also like to learn the control arm angles at level rest, full stuff, and full droop, but I have not done this because it's not easy to measure the two extremes when the Jeep is tilted and twisted.

I am mainly interested as a matter of curiosity.

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[Yellow Cake Kid]

With regard to the subject of the Lock n Load feature, it may be helpful to consider the history of the use of Front Radius Arms with Jeeps.

With a TJ the radius arm design was one of the only practical ways to improve the front control arm geometry when installing a lift. The factory front arms of a TJ are so short and the angles so extreme that doing a lift while using the factory frame mounts is not a great choice.

Radius arms are not a great choice either, but a lot of lifts use them because there is no practical way to relocate the upper control arm frame mount on a TJ without major surgery. You can relocate the lower arm frame mount fairly easily which makes the radius arm option seem like a good alternative.

Radius arms had been known to work ok on some factory suspensions. Their downsides do not become obvious until you employ them in a long travel suspension.

When the radius arms were adopted as a solution for lifted Jeeps it was observed that the upper axle mounts bind excessively. The axles did not flex as much as hoped and axle mounts were prone to ripping apart.

Folks learned that disconnecting one of the upper radius arms helped alleviate some of the axle mount binding.

The Lock-n-Load feature is incorporated on one of the two control arms. It is intended to provide a quick and easy way to disconnect one of the upper control arms, so you don't have to spend as much time crawling under your Jeep at the trailhead. That's it.

Radius arms may look like some sort of two link system, but they are a sort of quasi 4 link connection.

With the Lock-n-Load, or a rigid upper control arm is disconnected, the quasi 4 link system is converted to a quasi 3 link system.

It is what it is.

I would enjoy long arms or maybe drop brackets on the rear of my JL, but can not imagine ever running radius arms on the front. A hybrid T-Rex set up seems like an interesting compromise to me.

 

[Jeep Dude]

Never heard the term, but my suspension is soft and it may look like I have a Carolina squat, but I dont. LOL

The passenger side for reference.

Thanks mate ??.

I wasn't able to tell from your first picture, and with my teeny tiny screen.

Now with this new pic, and a big screen I'm on now, I clearly see it.

Nice build going on there ????.

Curious why you don't have rock sliders to protect your pinch sides?

I'm not clear though, which of the two, DB3 rear vs long arm rear, offers more ground clearance?

I understand that with the DB3, you lose 3 inches ground clearance, but looking at the pic here, you lose about the same amount with the long arm?

I'm so tempted to try this, but the 3 inch loss versus a standard game changer has me ? cringing just a bit.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Whoops, helps if I grab the correct side of the graph.

Red is actually the -3”

I think the graph is skewed toward long arms as everyone is looking at the Arc from horizontal. With the db3 brackets the short arms will likely start at or near horizontal at ride height. The long arms will likely be 20⁰ angled down, and short arms in factory mounts would probably be more like 30⁰. With a 12" stroke shock, you likely have 4-5" of uptravel and 7-8" of down travel. The dropped short arms would be at about the same angle as the long arms at full droop thanks to their more favorable starting position. Nobody wants to admit that they could have gotten the same performance as their long arms for thousands less, but I think it's closer than these graphs alone make it appear.

 

[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

I think the graph is skewed toward long arms as everyone is looking at the Arc from horizontal. With the db3 brackets the short arms will likely start at or near horizontal at ride height. The long arms will likely be 20⁰ angled down, and short arms in factory mounts would probably be more like 30⁰. With a 12" stroke shock, you likely have 4-5" of uptravel and 7-8" of down travel. The dropped short arms would be at about the same angle as the long arms at full droop thanks to their more favorable starting position. Nobody wants to admit that they could have gotten the same performance as their long arms for thousands less, but I think it's closer than these graphs alone make it appear.

Yeah, but the Long Arms give you 25HP. LOL
For me, Its not about the money or the functionality. I wanted it. Period

 

[Zandcwhite]

Yeah, but the Long Arms give you 25HP. LOL
For me, Its not about the money or the functionality. I wanted it. Period

Not knocking long arms at all, people spend their money on "upgrades" that do nothing or even make their vehicle worse. Long arms work well, and have a cool factor. My point was the drop brackets work almost as well for cheap.

 

[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

Not knocking long arms at all, people spend their money on "upgrades" that do nothing or even make their vehicle worse. Long arms work well, and have a cool factor. My point was the drop brackets work almost as well for cheap.

?

 

[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

Thanks mate ??.

I wasn't able to tell from your first picture, and with my teeny tiny screen.

Now with this new pic, and a big screen I'm on now, I clearly see it.

Nice build going on there ????.

Curious why you don't have rock sliders to protect your pinch sides?

I'm not clear though, which of the two, DB3 rear vs long arm rear, offers more ground clearance?

I understand that with the DB3, you lose 3 inches ground clearance, but looking at the pic here, you lose about the same amount with the long arm?

I'm so tempted to try this, but the 3 inch loss versus a standard game changer has me ? cringing just a bit.

I took off the OEM rails and Ace sliders while working on the kit. I sold the Ace sliders and was gonna install the CavFab frame mounted ones, but there is too much fabrication needed and I am in crunch mode to get everything done before a trip out West in early April. I reinstalled the OEM Rubi rails (cutting about an inch on both ends) The CavFab rock sliders will have to wait until I return from UT.

 

[Jtclayton612]

I took off the OEM rails and Ace sliders while working on the kit. I sold the Ace sliders and was gonna install the CavFab frame mounted ones, but there is too much fabrication needed and I am in crunch mode to get everything done before a trip out West in early April. I reinstalled the OEM Rubi rails (cutting about an inch on both ends) The CavFab rock sliders will have to wait until I return from UT.

was there interference with the new arms and ace sliders by chance, I’ve got them and have been looking at this kit.

 

[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

I sold the Ace sliders before installing the MC kit. The body mount Aces may fit with little trimming of the rear mount. The MC rear brackets took up too much space on the frame for frame mounted sliders.

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