Looking grim for Stellantis

[rickinAZ]

Parent companies may come and go, but Jeep ALWAYS lands on it's feet. I've seen four owners during my tenure as a Jeeper (Chrysler, Daimler-Benz, Fiat, Stellantis). There was also a private equity company for a while. I've owned at least one example of each vintage, and haven't noticed a lot of parental influences - they tend to be the tail that wags the dog.

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[Sparty]

That’s the truth!!
Now they’ve been replaced with younger less experienced guys at a lower pay. Also heard a few other things they’ve done to the r&d dept so I have very little faith in things coming out.

Coming from a closely related industry, 10-1 says those replacements are from a LCC (Low Cost Country). And I can tell you, the engineering knowledge just isn't there

 

[TheRaven]

Ok what SUV are you comparing to that’s better value, better price, GM doesn’t have anything. You are comparing BRonco, Wrangler, 4Runner.

LOL no...GM does indeed build mid-size SUVs, so does Ford, Nissan, Honda, and even Hyundai. This pretend world many of you live in where "the Wrangler has no competition" is not real. In the real world, 90% of Wrangler buyers are coming from unibody mid-size SUVs and will be returning to those when they decide to trade in their Wrangler for something different.

I know many of us are off-roaders and unibody SUVs won't cut it...but we can't pretend that the JL's massive jump in sales is due to a huge part of the population suddenly becoming outdoorsy. No. It's all image. These are all Acadia/Traverse/Pilot/Explorer/Highlander/GC buyers looking to up their "adventurous" image. THESE are the buyers now no longer buying Wranglers because they can buy Cadillac's and Lexus's cheaper.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

If you think Jeeps are too expensive, DON'T BUY ONE!!! Posting pages and page of complaints will not help.

That is exactly what is happening! Sales are dropping. The complaints may indeed help if Corporate would listen. Watching the Jeep Wrangler brand slowly implode is like watching a good buddy drink himself to death….friends can give advice but the words fall on deaf ears.

 

[siggy]

I tried to build a 2024 as close as I could to my 2019 (need to deduct about $2500 from the 2024 for the disparity in options). Everything has gone up in price but, is more or less the same Wrangler worth a $2,200 increase per year or a $12,000 total increase for 5 years?

Truth be told--none of them are especially any from the Big 3.

2019 Rubicon = $57,950

2024 Rubicon = $69,370

Perform the same analysis for your Bronco. I bet it’s experienced the same, if not more, price increases in a shorter amount of time. Figures don’t have emotions. EVERYTHING has gone up in price dramatically over the past few years.

 

[alphawolff]

My 2024 was built right after the strike, and I have had no problems with the exception of a bad rear passenger rubber seal around the window. Bad part, not bad build.

Build quality is part quality. You can't say you bought a new vehicle and didn't have problems and then immediately mention a problem you had. If you spend 60k on a vehicle the only thing you should be visiting the dealer for is oil changes and other maintenance services, at least for the first 30k.

Nor does Stellantis appear to be training a cohort of mechanics such that the service experience for a $120k Wagoneer is universally phenomenal, irrespective of which dealer you happen to roll into. It’s a crapshoot whether a given mechanic can fix an intermittent issue with, say, an electrical bus.

The Wagoneer is a running joke at my shop because of how unreliable they are. I remember when they were first coming out I was getting ROs with 3 pages of RSUs/recalls for them. It was crazy. If you bought a Wagoneer you got scammed, big time.

On a side note, Stellantis has stopped pretty much all training in the last year or two. Classes are almost never ran anymore. Nobody at my shop has been to training in over a year, except a mopar scope class that we had to petition Stellantis directly to host to get levels back for 2 of our guys. The instructor LITERALLY QUIT the day the class ended. I couldn't make this shit up if I tried.

When I first started I was going to training like every other month. Now it seems the new guys do their online training and when they're ready to do in class training they get stuck because they don't host classes anymore, or when they do it's like once a year with very limited seats.

The training issue has gotten serious enough that they completely overhauled technician levels recently. It used to be you needed to be level 2 or level 3 in certain areas in order to perform warranty repairs, such as being level 3 in transmissions to replace a transmission. We're so strapped for qualified technicians Stellantis had to outright remove the level requirements for warranty repairs. Now anybody can work on anything so long as you don't get too many comebacks. I'm serious.

 

[NWJeepr]

Tacoma TRD Pro jumped ~$15k in MSRP this year and instead of a Japanese built truck you get one made in Mexico.

Wait, what? When was the Tacoma ever built in Japan for the US market? Toyota has had factories in Mexico for 20+ years?

 

[MayThe4x4BWU]

No big surprise. Stellantis gambled on themselves and their "brands" in the NA market and lost.

The "success" they had last year made them (and probably shareholders too) greedy and they went overboard with the focus on models that just weren't going to be appealing to new mainstream customers. The people who were going to buy the 4xe and Wagoneers, because they are "Jeep" loyalists, hybrid enthusiasts, or just plain have nothing else better to do with their money, already have theirs...at least until their leases are up in 3 years lol

Stellantis pigeon-holed themselves into this mess.

The only people who, probably, profited from all this are shareholders, at least while the going was good

It's one thing to say inflation is part of the woes for them, but it doesn't excuse the amount of incompetence amongst the "leadership" at Stellantis. What did they think was going to happen when they put pressure on all sides to increase their profitability to appease shareholders?

Gonna need a big bag of popcorn pretty soon

 

[Kyanche]

I was driving by my local dealership the other day and right in front was a 2024 2 door Sport S, a rarity around here lately. I stopped to check it out and it had the same options as my Sport S. I realize there is a new dash interior with the huge radio but the sticker price was about $8000 more than my 2020 Sport S. I am not an expert in this area but it can’t be hard to understand if sales and profit are down, you might want to reconsider your pricing structure. It is not rocket science.

And I wouldn't be shocked if the 2024 cost less to make than your 2020 did.

Also IDK, I think Stellantis has a few problems atm:
1. They keep throwing more money at Alfa Romeo and Maserati. Two brands that I don't think will ever serve more than an honorable mention in the luxury car space.
2. They have gone full Harley Davidson with the Dodge Charger and the Jeep brands and seem to have no interest in trying to listen to the market.
3. They've done nothing to solve any of the current problems the brands in the US have (a rep of poor reliability, bad dealership service, overpriced cars)

Jeep did enjoy a brief moment of time there were going out in the wilderness and camping with your off road vehicle was super popular. Just a brief moment. Now Toyota and Subaru are continuing to enjoy that brief moment while everyone laughs at us Jeep owners and calls us fools for buying poorly built vehicles that keep breaking down.

 

[beachbumm78]

Coming from a closely related industry, 10-1 says those replacements are from a LCC (Low Cost Country). And I can tell you, the engineering knowledge just isn't there

You are exactly right! And they reduced the # drastically.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

Wait, what? When was the Tacoma ever built in Japan for the US market? Toyota has had factories in Mexico for 20+ years?

You’re right. My bad.

 

[2nd 392]

Wait, what? When was the Tacoma ever built in Japan for the US market? Toyota has had factories in Mexico for 20+ years?

Not sure if it was Mexico, but 29 years ago my low production numbers 95 Camry Coupe was the only Camry made in Japan.
It took an extensive search to find a V6 Coupe (the only Coupe found) My wife wanted a Camry, and it was the only acceptable one to me

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

Perform the same analysis for your Bronco. I bet it’s experienced the same, if not more, price increases in a shorter amount of time. Figures don’t have emotions. EVERYTHING has gone up in price dramatically over the past few years.

This is truth^^^…but innovation and improvement has been minimal during this period while quality is declining, making the price increase feel like gouging.

 

[Dusty Dude]

Mercedes, BMW and Ford, by contrast, each have a robust, well-trained, well-staffed support system. My experiences with those brands have been universally excellent. Oh, and they hand out like-for-like loaners.

My BIL and I have had the opposite experience with Mercedes and BMW. My Mercedes dealer in the Chicago area was very good, but when I moved to Colorado, forget it. I gave up after 4 different dealerships that couldn’t do what I considered simple repairs. The final straw was when I was buying out my lease on my last Mercedes. Mercedes insisted I had to have it “certified” by one of their service departments. They tried to charge me $500 for brake pads for 40K highway driven miles. I told them we will have them replaced AFTER they show me the worn out brake pads on the vehicle. Suddenly I was told it was a different vehicle that had that issue.

My BIL in Minnesota only buys the high end BMW’s. He is not a car guy and is not mechanically inclined. He is at the point that once a problem comes along, they get one chance to fix it. He is sick and tired of having to “bring it back in” for the same problem. If it is past the warranty and they don’t fix it right, he trades it in on another new BMW.

 

[mmcbeat]

I tried to build a 2024 as close as I could to my 2019 (need to deduct about $2500 from the 2024 for the disparity in options). Everything has gone up in price but, is more or less the same Wrangler worth a $2,200 increase per year or a $12,000 total increase for 5 years?

Truth be told--none of them are especially any from the Big 3.

2019 Rubicon = $57,950

2024 Rubicon = $69,370

I had a 2019 Sport S, sold it and bought a 2024 Sport S. Both jeeps were equipped about the same, S package, 3.6 v6, automatic, hardtop. The 2024 was almost $9,000 more. But there were more incentives offered on the MSRP 24 so it was about $4.500 more, net. Also, the Wrangler is one of the best out there as far as holding resale value goes.

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