Looking grim for Stellantis

[TrailScooter]

Its ok the failure will be socialized because they are too big to fail again.

Yeah, I'm still waiting for my dividend check from my investment in chrysler.

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[Bulletbill]

Yet Stellantis is the only one struggling so mightily right now.

We all know that prices, on everything, have gone up across the board. Yes all automakers have raised prices. My Silverado stickered at $56k in 2021 (and $54k in 2019) and is now $64k. But NO ONE has raised prices like Stellantis. Jeeps are priced with luxury SUVs...a Cadillac XT6 Premium stickers for less than a middle-of-the-road Rubicon build. That's insanity. If I re-purchased my 2021 JLUS today, it would be $12k more expensive. That's just off the charts - a near 30% price increase in less than four years. That's not even getting into the problem that Jeeps are near the bottom in quality. So Stellantis has got competition building far better products for less money...and some of those automakers are now reducing prices too.

I was not arguing with you, just stating that the competition is priced roughly the same and is struggling with quality. Toyota for some is the gold standard and has been having issues lately.

In fairness to all these arguments, Jeep is one of the most heavily modded vehicle out the showroom door. When someone sticks 37”s on a stock 4xe and then has problems, is that Jeeps fault? Arguably, some might be, but I don’t think there is a member on here who hasn’t seen some trash mod on a JL in the wild with someone behind the wheel who is only in it for the look.

With that said, I fully admit that I don’t have a background in manufacturing or finance so I am not someone that can offer much as to solutions to Jeeps problems. I can only say, I feel like in 2021 my Jeep was priced reasonably after discounts and it has been a great vehicle since my purchase.

 

[Ol’ Timey Manual SWB Guy]

Curious that everybody in this thread is focused up at the corporate ownership level, on inflation, on Wall Street, etc. That’s a macro story, and certainly true.

The more immediate - and more painful - micro story is that dealership service advisors rarely provide the repair experience people simply expect at the six-figure price point, and also that the service advisors are fronting a cohort of mechanics who are (generally) not trained to service such vehicles with 100% accuracy. Indeed some of these things (4xe licensed ZF transmissions, dual aux batteries, head units) can barely be fixed in the field.

Aircraft mechanics get it right first time, every time… or flights end more swiftly than intended. CRJ service ain’t that kind of experience. It’s just not.

Nor does Stellantis appear to be training a cohort of mechanics such that the service experience for a $120k Wagoneer is universally phenomenal, irrespective of which dealer you happen to roll into. It’s a crapshoot whether a given mechanic can fix an intermittent issue with, say, an electrical bus.

Indeed, Stellantis laid off a lot of white-collar engineers, the very types of senior engineers who might inform such training, and who could coalesce “lessons learned” into fleet-wide best practice repair procedures.

So a bunch of good mechanics (the vast majority?) are making best efforts, and that’s fine. But it’s not universal excellence. Mercedes, BMW and Ford, by contrast, each have a robust, well-trained, well-staffed support system. My experiences with those brands have been universally excellent. Oh, and they hand out like-for-like loaners.

Today’s inflated Jeep price point won’t bear “best effort” support, IMHO.

The nexus of the problem isn’t just up at the CEO. It’s also way down at the service manager’s desk.

Perhaps both need to be overhauled?

 

[jbcrane]

Absolutely, without a doubt. The further we get from the pre-FCA days, the worse things are going to get...assuming the Jeep brand survives under Stellantis.

I have a feeling that ten years from now the JL is going to be thought of as the pinnacle of late model Jeep Wranger build quality and design. I don't have a lot of confidence in the first two model years of the JL replacement, if not longer.

When I bought mine in '21 there was no way to anticipate how important this sticker might be (not that FCA had a sterling reputation at the time). Compared to how it seems things have changed since then I'm glad I bought when I did.

As an aside, was just at the Mountain West Overlanding Expo and saw significant increase in the number of Grenadiers. Between them, the Bronco, and new Land Cruiser it seems there's more pressure on that market segment than ever before. I'll not be among those looking elsewhere but it's easy to see others who may have thought they wanted a Jeep - taking a hard look at the competition.

 

[NWJeepr]

Perhaps both need to be overhauled?

Those two ideas are linked. The parent corp cut expenses and hollowed out the service experience. It has to come from the top down. Dealers as independent owners and franchisees can't magically increase warranty reimbursements, and poor support, quality and engineering exacerbates the issue at the dealer level.

Stellantis is McDonalds trying to sell a steak in the form of a $120k Grand Wago, with the typical McDonald's experience. Mercedes is more like a steakhouse, and they offer a happy hour menu of cars like the GLA. But their customer base is actually folks buying a nice steak dinner at regular prices. See the difference?

 

[Rampage]

Yah I’m pissed my 76k 2023 extreme recon rubicon is now worth 40k with only 12 k miles on it.

 

[CarbonSteel]

I tried to build a 2024 as close as I could to my 2019 (need to deduct about $2500 from the 2024 for the disparity in options). Everything has gone up in price but, is more or less the same Wrangler worth a $2,200 increase per year or a $12,000 total increase for 5 years?

Truth be told--none of them are especially any from the Big 3.

2019 Rubicon = $57,950

2024 Rubicon = $69,370

 

[Traveller128]

lol I just checked Harley Davidson site for giggles… $54,000 starting price for a RoadGlide. My god !!!!!! And people are worried about Jeep prices.

That's the big issue with most consumer goods lately. The prices are in the "years income" range of a lot of people now. People know that they shouldn't be buying anything that costs a year's income for a toy. Even a passenger car, that they'll use daily, is in the $30-35K range for a reasonable commuter with some utility.

Harleys, are firmly now in the "discretionary income" category. I have motorcycles. I don't feel like setting money on fire, so I don't own a Harley. For the price of a Harley, I can have two dirt bikes, one an Italian Beta that wasn't cheap, a really nice two up Can-Am quad, a retro superbike that we just sold and a 2 up adventure bike. Actually, adding it up, I'm still $8K less than a Harley Glide for ALL of that, all purchased new.

I have discretionary income, and I feel we have a LOT more fun on and offroad than we'd ever have on a "won't even do gravel" Harley.

When I bought mine in '21 there was no way to anticipate how important this sticker might be (not that FCA had a sterling reputation at the time). Compared to how it seems things have changed since then I'm glad I bought when I did.

As an aside, was just at the Mountain West Overlanding Expo and saw significant increase in the number of Grenadiers. Between them, the Bronco, and new Land Cruiser it seems there's more pressure on that market segment than ever before. I'll not be among those looking elsewhere but it's easy to see others who may have thought they wanted a Jeep - taking a hard look at the competition.

Up until yesterday, I was working at the U.S.' first Grenadier dealer. I've been looking at them since we started getting them, and I think their quality is better than Jeep, by a bit. They are a solid competitor to anything out there, and I think better than Jeep, Bronco and probably Toyota in many respects. Solid axles, BMW turbo 6, very rugged chassis. The main complaint is the steering doesn't self center like other brands. It's sure a model I'd be shopping if I was shopping 4 door offroad utility.

Just take the base model, add the offroad package with the lockers to get it in the mid $70K range, and drive the thing. It's right there with the 4 door "offroad" models from other brands.

 

[TheRaven]

We're picking random cars for a comparison?
And you're a rocket scientist?

LOL nothing random about comparing a vehicle to it's competition.

I was not arguing with you, just stating that the competition is priced roughly the same and is struggling with quality. Toyota for some is the gold standard and has been having issues lately.

But the point is that the competition is NOT priced roughly the same. Again, when I can buy a higher-trim midsize luxury SUV cheaper than I can buy a middle-of-the-range Wrangler, there is a HUGE problem. If anything, the fully loaded High Altitude should be falling in the lower-end of the luxury mid-size SUV range...cause while it's not going to compete with a luxury SUV, it does have a few things those premium offerings don't.

 

[beachbumm78]

The mfpics of Stella/Jeep aren't getting it. Shuffling staff and jiggering numbers on balance sheets isn't going to fix their pricing and product issues. Make the best product at the right price and the rest follows. Can't do that by cutting all the staff.

That’s the truth!!
And I don’t foresee it improving any time soon. Esp product issues. One of my brothers best friends worked for Stellanis in their engineering dept on jeeps. Any continual issues dealerships were seeing got passed on to him and his team. He was one of them that decided for by backs etc and tackled those problems that couldn’t get fixed. Well with this latest of “staff shuffling” his entire dept got laid off. All those with years of experience fixing Jeeps problems. Now they’ve been replaced with younger less experienced guys at a lower pay. Also heard a few other things they’ve done to the r&d dept so I have very little faith in things coming out.

 

[Nitehawk92]

If you think Jeeps are too expensive, DON'T BUY ONE!!! Posting pages and page of complaints will not help. I have not priced other SUV's but for a Mazda, you really cannot customize them. You can get floor mats, "mode" lighting and stuff like that, but not options like Jeep allows. If they didn't have removable tops and doors, that would decrease the price. If they severely cut down the options, the price could go down. Having the number of options that Jeep provides will always increase the cost of manufacturing. Granted that doesn't account for all the price increase, the new labor contract doesn't help either...

 

[NWJeepr]

Don't forget that tanking the stock value is ultimately good for the existing 3 Billion Euro share buyback Stellantis has in place for 2024.

 

[Jtphoto]

LOL nothing random about comparing a vehicle to it's competition.



But the point is that the competition is NOT priced roughly the same. Again, when I can buy a higher-trim midsize luxury SUV cheaper than I can buy a middle-of-the-range Wrangler, there is a HUGE problem. If anything, the fully loaded High Altitude should be falling in the lower-end of the luxury mid-size SUV range...cause while it's not going to compete with a luxury SUV, it does have a few things those premium offerings don't.

Ok what SUV are you comparing to that’s better value, better price, GM doesn’t have anything. You are comparing BRonco, Wrangler, 4Runner.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

Same, I love my 2023. Everything about it feels nice and good quality. My other car is a 2021 Toyota Avalon which is supposed to be their most luxurious non-Lexus car, and honestly my Wrangler has it beat in most aspects. Ride comfort and road noise are the only things the Avalon wins at. Even the backup camera is complete crap on the Toyota compared to my Jeep. And if you think our infotainment is bad, it's got nothing on Toyota, that one is awful. Pretty much everything about my JL feels more luxurious and higher quality. Pretty certain it would beat the Avalon out on the Rubicon Trail, too.

UConnext totally destroys Toyota infotainment. I was actually surprised by UConnect because there are a number of hints that show there are some reasonably competent software engineers behind certain aspects of the design.

 

[Oncorhynchus]

It’s not just Jeep with inflated prices. It’s ALL of them. But remember what is bringing on these higher prices.

Tacoma TRD Pro jumped ~$15k in MSRP this year and instead of a Japanese built truck you get one made in Mexico.

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