K&N AIR INTAKE

[sgterik]

Looking at this K& N 63-1587 , has anyone been able to get one already? I see a lot of posts stating that you will not see a difference in anything, then how can they post results that show they do without getting hit with lawsuits for fake or false advertising? I have been looking at the AFE, but K&N has a better name

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[calemasters]

I see a lot of posts stating that you will not see a difference in anything ....

I think the above statement is probably true.

I just use the Mopar OEM engine air filter. It is a high quality filter.

 

[BUSHRVN]

I think the above statement is probably true.

I just use the Mopar OEM engine air filter. It is a high quality filter.

X2 , just a risk of over oiling and sensor issues or under oiling and dusting the engine. I played this game years ago with my Ram Cummins pick up’s(AFE), to me it was a waste of time and money and sleep thinking about the dusting my engine potential. After a year of use of oiled filters I removed intake pipes and there was a film of fine dust adhered to the inside of the pipe. As well with the truck being chipped, if I turned up the settings I’d get a service air filter notice due to the level of vacuum pressure. I put the stock air box back in and I couldn’t get the service air filter warning meaning that the stock filter and housing flowed better that the AFE unit I had.
To routinely get the cleaning and oiling process perfect every time is a real pain.
Just my honest experienced opinion.

 

[BroncoHound]

Looking at this K& N 63-1587 , has anyone been able to get one already? I see a lot of posts stating that you will not see a difference in anything, then how can they post results that show they do without getting hit with lawsuits for fake or false advertising? I have been looking at the AFE, but K&N has a better name

Marketing 101: be selective with your verbiage.

How do they post results without getting sued? They word things carefully. Taken from the product page on the K&N website:

Guaranteed to increase horsepower and torque

All they have to do is show one dyno chart where they got that one vehicle to post a bigger hp and tq number that one time, without disclosing any of the other conditions (same dyno? same day? same conditions/DA? same calibration? how much smoothing? same fuel?), for that statement to be, legally, true.

Estimated Horsepower Gain 11.83 HP @ 2759 RPM

ESTIMATED horsepower gain. Legally covered.

MORE HORSEPOWER GUARANTEED
K&N intake kits are guaranteed to increase your vehicle’s horsepower and torque, and K&N performs rigorous in-house testing to ensure that each kit meets high-performance standards. Published dynamometer charts are available on individual product pages to help estimate performance gains.

What are these high performance standards? Could high performance standards be the quality of the packing tape used on the box they're shipped in? Yeah, could be. Legally, they could be anything. No false advertising there.

Horsepower gains based on specific or similar vehicle dynamometer test. Results will vary.

There's the get out of jail free card, right at the bottom of the dyno chart.

As for K&N having a better name than AFE, that's subjective. K&N has a bigger household brand recognition history because they were the first big air filter company to really go mainstream in the aftermarket industry. But, AFE is just as big and reputable a brand. I don't think there's much in the way of difference between the two, really.

As for why folks report not feeling a difference, look at the dyno chart. The horsepower gain over stock starts at ~2300rpm and peaks at 2750rpm. Likewise the torque gain starts at 2300rpm and peaks at 2600rpm. How much time do you spend specifically between 2300-2750rpm? From my limited driving of my new Ecodiesel Jeep, she pretty much shifts around 2300-2500rpm in every gear and likes to stay under 2000rpm as much as possible for cruising. So this thing would provide a small gain for a small period of time and only if you held in that small window of revs. On top of that, where torque is most felt in a vehicle is in the low RPMs/off-idle and where horsepower gains are most felt are in the upper RPM range. So this chart showing all of their gains are in the midrange, and being a minor difference at that, really doesn't do anything for performance in the way the driver feels them.

There are other downsides to aftermarket CAI's on a FI engine, some of which have already been outlined by previous posts: maintaining an oiled filter is a bit finicky and requires more time and effort for nearly no real upside, and reduced filtration over OEM. Looking at the filter offered in that K&N kits ISO test results, it started filtration at 98.07% with a test dust of only 22% <10mic and 78% 10-160mic. This is actually pretty low; I couldn't find the ISO chart for the Ecodiesel's stock air filter offhand, but most OEM air filter elements are ~99.6% filtration with a test dust much higher than 22% <10mic.

Now it should be said that the K&N does increase to 99.12% filtration after the filter is dirtied during the test, which is a feature of an oiled filter media (it filters better as the oil particles grab onto dirt particles in the air and help expand the relative surface area the oil droplets cover) but that is still below what other OEM air filter elements I've seen test results for.

TL;DR = aftermarket CAI's on modern engines are largely a performance wash and, in some cases (Hellcat) will produce less power than OEM. In nearly all cases, filtration will be superior in the OEM filter element, and pretty much the only thing the driver will notice after spending $400 is the engine will be a bit louder in the cabin, you'll have a shiny part to show off when you pop the hood, and you'll get some stickers for the side of your Jeep or toolbox (if you're into that sort of thing).

 

[ogo]

When properly applied, stickers can increase HP by 5%

Results may vary

 

[rickinAZ]

Looking at this K& N 63-1587 , has anyone been able to get one already? I see a lot of posts stating that you will not see a difference in anything, then how can they post results that show they do without getting hit with lawsuits for fake or false advertising? I have been looking at the AFE, but K&N has a better name

It's called puffery. I suspect that there has NEVER been an underhood "cold air" intake, for any make of vehicle, that does anything but slightly change the sound (and add some bling).

But...people keep on buying them.

 

[BroncoHound]

It's called puffery. I suspect that there has NEVER been an underhood "cold air" intake, for any make of vehicle, that does anything but slightly change the sound (and add some bling).

But...people keep on buying them.

That's not entirely true. The Legmaker CAI on the Hellcat platform has repeatable, independently documented, and seat-of-the-saddle reports of a meaningful gain. I ran it on my Hellcat Challenger and can attest to more than just an increase in blower whine (though there was plenty of that, too, and it was largely the premise of the purchase). But yes, aside from some outliers here and there, largely snake oil in the performance department.

 

[BUSHRVN]

To add to my previous post, when I would take the intake pipe off the turbo on my Cummins you could see that there was a light oil film on the blades with micro dusting. Also meaning that the intercooler would likely have the film as well, all over time slowly closing off the openings within the intercooler and creating more restrictions in flow.
In some real high performance modded cases there’s performance benefit but at the cost of less filtration and long term consequences for the engine. How else do you get more air through the same space/surface area other than bigger holes(drop in replacement types)?

 

[zouch]

i absolutely saw a difference when i used a K&N in my 4.0L J**p; significantly increased Silica in my Used Oil Analysis.

now, it could be that it was just an issue with *that* particular application, but after fussing with making sure i did all the cleaning and oiling of the filter correctly only to find i was getting *more* sand in through the filter, i have no inclination to use a K&N air filter again.

Looking at this K& N 63-1587 , has anyone been able to get one already? I see a lot of posts stating that you will not see a difference in anything, then how can they post results that show they do without getting hit with lawsuits for fake or false advertising? I have been looking at the AFE, but K&N has a better name

 

[Walker Texas Wrangler]

I used a K&N drop-in air filter and added a Flowmaster to my '02 Ram. I had the 4.7L V8. It sounded great, but I quickly developed exhaust leaks at the manifold. Traded it in after tons of problems at only 47K miles. There's always discussions about back pressure needed while balancing airflow. Didn't see any difference, other than the hassle. YMMV.

 

[Wrangler man]

To add to my previous post, when I would take the intake pipe off the turbo on my Cummins you could see that there was a light oil film on the blades with micro dusting. Also meaning that the intercooler would likely have the film as well, all over time slowly closing off the openings within the intercooler and creating more restrictions in flow.
In some real high performance modded cases there’s performance benefit but at the cost of less filtration and long term consequences for the engine. How else do you get more air through the same space/surface area other than bigger holes(drop in replacement types)?

For a Wrangler application that is regularly used off-road in dusty conditions this would be in my opinion absolutely horrible idea tacky dusty oil build-up whether it's within the intake or worse, pass the intake, as you stated. Absolutely disastrous

 

[ABRubi]

Back in the 80s I was a K & N Kool-Aid drinker. Dirt bikes, boats, trucks, tractors. Then noticed all the crap downstream of the filter. Heed all the good advise here.

 

[Terpsmandan]

$400 for that? For $1200 you can get a full GDE tune and get an increase of 80 ft lbs and 45 hp. I did it and I am getting over 25 mpg on 37's....

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