Death on the trail

[Old Jeeper]

That is an unavoidable accident... yanking on a drop ball hitch is avoidable. Do you not grasp the difference in an accident and winning a Darwin award?

LOL, did you NOT read my post, chit happens be it a Darwin or out of the blue with no fault of yours. I seen a LOT, seen them die out there, lose legs, fingers, you name it. You wheel enough and spend as much time I have you will see it all sooner or later.

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[J_Winslow]

LOL, did you NOT read my post, chit happens be it a Darwin or out of the blue with no fault of yours. I seen a LOT, seen them die out there, lose legs, fingers, you name it. You wheel enough and spend as much time I have you will see it all sooner or later.

But there is a big difference in preventable accidents and non preventable. I do not think you are grasping the difference.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Too many guys want to do big slack run snatches. Most do it with the wrong equipment and technique, trying to be a badass. I never do a slack run without trying a slow pull first. The majority of the time, a slow pull is all it takes.

The other day, I took a drive on Mustang Island. The surf was light so there was a lot of dry sand. As I'm driving, I see a minivan stuck in deep soft sand. There was a family in it with a baby. I can't tell you how many 4x4s passed them up. as I could see them a long way off. I pulled up and offered help. I was in my F150, but I keep recovery gear in both my truck and Jeep. This guy didn't even have a receiver on his van. I had to use a flat srap and connect to his rear suspension, then connect my 7/8" recovery rope to it. A slow pull, some digging in the sand by my trucks tires, and the minvan came free. I advised them not to drive on the light colored sand and they were on their way. I could see some guy in one of those bro trucks doing a big slack run and yanking the suspension out from underneath.

My dad hated winches and never would allow one on any of our vehicles. When he was in the Air Force we saw a winch cable break on a 2 1/2 ton truck and kill the guy in the truck. I'm not against winches myself, but to this day, I've still yet to have one.

 

[blnewt]

But there is a big difference in preventable accidents and non preventable. I do not think you are grasping the difference.

I dunno, from what I've been reading I would say he grasps the difference pretty well. In fact this thread that he started (at least IMO) was posted to make those that may not have been aware, that there is serious consequences when you don't take precautions.

Carry on....................................................

 

[Old Jeeper]

But there is a big difference in preventable accidents and non preventable. I do not think you are grasping the difference.

Check your reading comprehension skills. I understand it far better than you can grasp. I have saved lives, vehicles and taken on challenges and made it happen when professionals refused to do the job. I have done it from Fl to Wash, Hawaii to Maine, Europe, Latin America and Asia. So don't start telling me what I know and don't know...

 

[Old Jeeper]

Too many guys want to do big slack run snatches. Most do it with the wrong equipment and technique, trying to be a badass. I never do a slack run without trying a slow pull first. The majority of the time, a slow pull is all it takes.

The other day, I took a drive on Mustang Island. The surf was light so there was a lot of dry sand. As I'm driving, I see a minivan stuck in deep soft sand. There was a family in it with a baby. I can't tell you how many 4x4s passed them up. as I could see them a long way off. I pulled up and offered help. I was in my F150, but I keep recovery gear in both my truck and Jeep. This guy didn't even have a receiver on his van. I had to use a flat srap and connect to his rear suspension, then connect my 7/8" recovery rope to it. A slow pull, some digging in the sand by my trucks tires, and the minvan came free. I advised them not to drive on the light colored sand and they were on their way. I could see some guy in one of those bro trucks doing a big slack run and yanking the suspension out from underneath.

My dad hated winches and never would allow one on any of our vehicles. When he was in the Air Force we saw a winch cable break on a 2 1/2 ton truck and kill the guy in the truck. I'm not against winches myself, but to this day, I've still yet to have one.

I do not like to snatch if I can help it and you need to have the proper rope to snatch with and always start slow. I get my rigging from https://www.masterpull.com/kinetic-recovery-ropes/ The guy that started the company had a career in the oil field and offshore oil platform rigging equipment.. Then he got into supplying rigging for off-roading. I bought his first rope out of the back of his station wagon.

Yep, seen a 1 in cable break on trying to extract a M 1 Tank at Ft Hood, a guy had come over to see the extract and he lost his leg when the cable snapped.

I have 2 Jeeps and my F 450 truck and they all have winches and ROPE! Wire cable really needs to be taken care to be safe. Most often its a kink or a folded bend in the spool in that puts a weak section in the cable and the next time extreme is applied it snaps. The most dangerous are the suction stucks. That is a cable snapper. I told a guy who was suction stuck that I had a battery-powered drill in my toolbox and a shovel. Drill some holes in the floorboard and shovel out the mud as best you can get at on the sides. He looked at me like I was crazy and told me cannot get me unstuck with drill...YEP, do you know what air weighs? 14.7 lbs per sq in x the floor in sq inches of your truck or 2,117 lbs per sq ft. After shoveling all he could we still could not budge it so said to drill the holes but if it does not work you are fix the holes. OK... I drilled some holes down the center, we put a couple of logs in front of the front tires and it came right out. The guy was shocked. I said that is a suction stuck and yes it really does SUCK! He had got into some wet caliche from a rain the night before and that is like glue.

Here is a pic of an extract, one of the most difficult I ever did. 2 full pulls on my Winch, water was chest deep in my Jeep, my Warn worked underwater. I saved him and his rig. We drove over the river that morning and at worst it was ankle deep, my wheels did not get wet. Came back at around 6 pm and a storm up N had flooded the river and it was rising. He was the leader, his run and he did not make, so I said I will come get you if I can. I did and had to pull him upstream at an angle to get him out.

The other guys refused to cross even when I said I would get them out if they got stuck. This was Saturday, they did not get home till MONDAY when the river got down enough to drive across. Sheriff's dept flew a helicopter out there to drop food and water to them.

See ya down in San Antonio, I went to Dell View and Robert E Lee there, dad was in the AF and its my hometown. Just sold my ranch up N of Boerne, sure miss it and Texas, but wife talked me into moving back to FL...

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Florida is nice, lots of fishing. Went to Mac. Born and raised here, except for a 7 year Army vacation.

 

[GearWhore]

Are we watching the same channel? They have terrible safety - no safety glasses most of the time when grinding metal in the shop, welding without a helmet, etc. Then on the trails they do all sorts of dangerous things. I would never count on MORR to teach safety. These screenshots are from the video they released this morning:

Finally watched the MORR video yesterday. Though I still disagree on the use of the ball hitch at all, especially when you have a vehicle carrying better options, no one was in the Morvair or even near the potential ball path if there was a failure, and Matt was standing to the side with the winch control. This was also a static pull with a winch, so no real dynamic loading to shock the system.

 

[John VonJeep]

Things can go sideways very quickly on the trail.

This video illustrates that very well.

Never get complacent.

 

[phageghost]

Always been a fan of the phrase: "If it seems like a bad idea, it probably is."

Listen to your gut, it's trying to keep you alive.

 

[azwjowner]

Finally watched the MORR video yesterday. Though I still disagree on the use of the ball hitch at all, especially when you have a vehicle carrying better options, no one was in the Morvair or even near the potential ball path if there was a failure, and Matt was standing to the side with the winch control. This was also a static pull with a winch, so no real dynamic loading to shock the system.

In this one instance, yes. The original point was about teaching safety though, and so it still is a bad example.

Not to worry though, there are a million other videos where Matt does dumb things including the one where he climbs underneath an XJ that is perched on an unstable sinkhole:

 

[me109stock]

When I first started wheeling back in the early 80's I was taught to put the hood up if your going to be in the vehicle and pulling (or getting pulled) from the front. Not sure if that would have stopped that rocket, but it may have deflected it.
The second thing I was taught was NEVER be in the straight line of the cable unless absolutely necessary. It was probably necessary in order to gas that stuck vehicle and/or steer in this situation.
When winching you should weight the line somewhere about the middle to help reduce recoil - more-so with steel cable than the new synthetic lines that don't stretch and store energy as much - but still a good practice.
Finally, know the limits of your equipment. Assuming he was using a 20k rated snatch strap (that is the rated load - the safety design load is much higher than that) and jerked hard enough the load create would have been HUGE prior to recoil (which is how a snatch strap works). Most trailer hitches and balls are not rated for more than about 8k pounds, and even "heavy duty" ones generally fall into the 10k-14k range. I recently put a 20k hitch on my F450 for some heavy trailer towing (2.5" solid steel shank and 1.25" ball shank) - I'm pretty sure the average Joe does not have that hitch on their truck.
Sad this guys mistake cost him his life. Understanding your limits and knowing what you don't know are the first steps to success and survival.

 

[TEAMSLO]

I don't know about other areas, but here in Vegas we have the Southern Nevada Off-road Recovery group (SNORR). I know a couple times a year they put on a recovery clinic for anyone interested to learn proper recovery techniques. I feel people also need to learn their limitations. Just because you have jeep/truck with a winch, doesn't mean you're invincible and can do anything. Learn that sometimes it's just not worth the risk.

We try to put them on every month to every other month when possible.

So unfortunate that we lose people when it could have been avoided, sad situation no matter how you look at it.

 

[Badfish]

I tell you what; MORR gets a lot of safety crap but experience goes a long way. I've done a lot of stupid stuff in my time seining with this setup over my head... and I can't avoid being out of the way on this deck.

Seeing some bad accidents is hard to read here with recoveries gone wrong; know your equipment limits... stress saves lives out there.

 

[entropy]

My dad hated winches and never would allow one on any of our vehicles. When he was in the Air Force we saw a winch cable break on a 2 1/2 ton truck and kill the guy in the truck. I'm not against winches myself, but to this day, I've still yet to have one.

Modern synthetic winches are probably as safe or safer than snatch straps. They are a great piece of equipment to have when wheeling on steep hills, rocky areas, etc... Where using a snatch strap can be somewhat dangerous due to the terrain.

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