Advice for Towing at the limit

[winojoe]

Hi

Vehicle: 2024 JLU Rubicon X 4xe.

Mods: Clayton 2.5" lift with heavy duty rear springs, Falcon SP 3.3 adj shocks, Teraflex Big Brake kit. 35" wheels.

I have the opportunity to tow a 2020 Rockwood GEO Pro 19FBS trailer. This trailer has a UVWR (unloaded vehicle weight rating) of 3300 lbs. So this trailer is right at the limit (3500 lbs) when it's empty. Once we add propane, some clothes and other stuff I'm sure we'll be a bit over 3500. We won't put water into the trailer until we're at our destination.

The combined weight (GCWR) of the 4xe is 9200 lbs so I'll be slightly over the GCWR as the dry weight is 5400 lbs. The only payload in the Jeep will be me and my wife.

As a side note - My Jeep has a big-brake kit on the front brakes and heavy duty springs in the rear. Also the 2024 Rubicons have a full float rear axle (FFRA). The FFRA is why some trims of the Wrangler Unlimited are now rated at 5000 lbs towing, unfortunately the 4xe didn't get this rating (nor did the 392). The only two configurations are the I4 and the V6 engines with the 4.10 rear end (4.56 got a lower tow rating - go figure).

These factors (BBK and Full-floating Rear Axle) is playing into my decision making on why I am probably okay to tow around 4000 lbs.

I know there are a few of you out there that probably push the envelope with regard to towing, I'm interested in observations about the Jeep's driving characteristics. Does it pull well up hill? How about cross-winds? Down hill? Winding roads?

PS. I'm not interested in legal opinions - please don't weigh in and say I'm not insured or anything like that because it's not the question I'm asking.

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[Zandcwhite]

The "liability nazis" will show up and tell you your insurance won't cover you if you're in an accident, but aside from people towing 2+ times their vehicles limit I've yet to see one instance of a non-commercial vehicle even being weighed post accident. It doesn't happen in my opinion. Add the fact that you are so close to the limit, you and your wife wouldn't be in it post accident even if they did weigh it, and if the accident is bad enough for anyone to even do a half assed investigation the trailer will be in pieces and this real hard to way, I wouldn't worry about it. You do what you're comfortable with, but your Jeep can handle it for sure.

 

[winojoe]

Tha

The "liability nazis" will show up and tell you your insurance won't cover you if you're in an accident, but aside from people towing 2+ times their vehicles limit I've yet to see one instance of a non-commercial vehicle even being weighed post accident. It doesn't happen in my opinion. Add the fact that you are so close to the limit, you and your wife wouldn't be in it post accident even if they did weigh it, and if the accident is bad enough for anyone to even do a half assed investigation the trailer will be in pieces and this real hard to way, I wouldn't worry about it. You do what you're comfortable with, but your Jeep can handle it for sure.

Thanks - I'm sure my post will invite legal opinions, which I'm not looking for, I'm a grown boy and will own up to whatever liability issues arise from my choices. I might update the OP right now.

I'm more curious about people's 1st hand experiences about their Jeep's driving characteristics with a bit more weight than its rated for.

 

[Jeep Wick]

Hi

Vehicle: 2024 JLU Rubicon X 4xe.

Mods: Clayton 2.5" lift with heavy duty rear springs, Falcon SP 3.3 adj shocks, Teraflex Big Brake kit. 35" wheels.

I have the opportunity to tow a 2020 Rockwood GEO Pro 19FBS trailer. This trailer has a UVWR (unloaded vehicle weight rating) of 3300 lbs. So this trailer is right at the limit (3500 lbs) when it's empty. Once we add propane, some clothes and other stuff I'm sure we'll be a bit over 3500. We won't put water into the trailer until we're at our destination.

The combined weight (GCWR) of the 4xe is 9200 lbs so I'll be slightly over the GCWR as the dry weight is 5400 lbs. The only payload in the Jeep will be me and my wife.

As a side note - My Jeep has a big-brake kit on the front brakes and heavy duty springs in the rear. Also the 2024 Rubicons have a full float rear axle (FFRA). The FFRA is why some trims of the Wrangler Unlimited are now rated at 5000 lbs towing, unfortunately the 4xe didn't get this rating (nor did the 392). The only two configurations are the I4 and the V6 engines with the 4.10 rear end (4.56 got a lower tow rating - go figure).

These factors (BBK and Full-floating Rear Axle) is playing into my decision making on why I am probably okay to tow around 4000 lbs.

I know there are a few of you out there that probably push the envelope with regard to towing - care to share any thoughts?

As long as you have a tow controller you should be fine. I've towed nearly as much with a 2 door and they are doing 5000+ lbs overseas.

 

[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

Basically, I'm thinking there is a number or ratio of the weight of your ride to the what youre trailering. You'll want one to control the other. I'm thinking it would be best if it were the Jeep youre in. ?‍

Given a straight line and miles to stop, (and no Aholes to pull cut in front of you) one can "pull" 10000 lbs. LOL

 

[rcadden]

I have a 2021 Sahara with the 2.0L on 33s with the tow package (hd alternator, bigger brakes, etc). When we first got it, I rented and towed a 2021 Dutchmen Coleman Lantern LT 17B, which has a similar 3K dry weight. Towing from Fort Worth, TX to Lake Tawakoni - about 130 miles east. Flat freeway, no hills or anything. Two-lane backroads for the last little bit.

https://www.outdoorsy.com/rv-rental/keller_tx/2020_coleman_dutchmen-lantern_206797-listing

For starters, I got about 10 MPG. So prepare to stop A LOT more often.

Beyond that, it was a pretty miserable experience, to be honest. I had the power - the 2.0L wasn't too bad. But braking was stressful as hell - that's a lot of weight to stop with a Jeep, even with the HD brakes. Visibility was also a challenge - the trailer is much wider than the Jeep, so even with mirror extenders, there were quite a few leaps of faith.

I personally wouldn't do it again, and I most definitely wouldn't do it on terrain that's not flat. It was one of the least fun driving experiences I've probably ever had. While my Jeep handled it, it didn't feel safe. Glad to answer any other questions via DM if you want.

 

[Stetson]

Towing at the limit just sucks. I towed a trailer lighter than yours with my rubicon (v6 mt) and it sucked. The trailer was pushing the Jeep all over, I didn’t have trailer brakes. It just wasn’t a fun experience.

good luck. I am sure you can do it, it just won’t be fun.

Stetson

 

[Kleiss1]

Don’t.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Basically, I'm thinking there is a number or ratio of the weight of your ride to the what youre trailering. You'll want one to control the other. I'm thinking it would be best if it were the Jeep youre in. ?‍

Given a straight line and miles to stop, (and no Aholes to cut in front of you) one can "pull" 10000 lbs. LOL

The 4xe weighs as much as my ram 1500, rated to tow 10,500lbs. I'm pretty sure that ratio is good. Add in the op has more torque than any of the wranglers rated to tow 5klbs, more stopping power thanks to the electric motor braking even before he added the big brake kit, and more weight, towing 4klbs with a 5k+lb rig isn't an issue.

 

[19 JLUR Bright Whit3]

 

[winojoe]

As long as you have a tow controller you should be fine. I've towed nearly as much with a 2 door and they are doing 5000+ lbs overseas.

I researched the European discrepancy and never really got a great answer.
Two explanations seem to recur- they sound reasonable and plausible

1- tongue weight is different in Europe. More like 5% whereas USA is more like 10%.

Why?

2- because the EU has a consistently enforced trailer tow speed limit whereas it’s not consistent in the USA so manufacturers rate the towing to the state with the highest speed limit when towing.

full disclosure- these are just findings based on my own research and could be completely wrong, as plausible as they might be.

 

[Heimkehr]

I'm a grown boy and will own up to whatever liability issues arise from my choices.

That's no way to go through life, friend. Think about how it will sound when you say that to the family of the decedent, who's life was lost when your inability to safely brake your overtaxed vehicle combination caused a collision and their subsequent death.

"Damn the torpedoes!

Oh, and...sorry."

You needn't be interested in personal liability for it to be interested in you. It's plain that your mind is made up here, and validation is being sought. It is, in its own way, reassuring that prior and anticipated thread replies are providing the necessary gut check.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Get a weight distribution hitch with an anti-sway damper. Watch the tongue weight, keep it well balanced. Make sure your tires on the Jeep are good and pumped up to the max weight rating. Get a good brake controller. Drive nice. Stay out of severe winds.

Watch this video
Tongue Weight Safety Demonstration - YouTube

 

[JeepinPete]

I wouldn't think twice about it. The chassis is good for 5k lbs, the rear axle is good for that much, you have more than enough power and more than enough brakes. You need a trailer brake controller and a weight distribution hitch, don't skimp there.

I'll be the contrarian. I've towed a lot at the limits. 7000# camper with a 7200# rated Dodge Durango from PA to Yellowstone and back for example. Doing so requires a lot of attention to detail. Getting your hitch dialed in (making multiple trips to the CAT scales), learning how to load the trailer, making sure everything is in tip top shape. Most folks do not want to be bothered, hence the 3/4 trucks for towing a 3k camper. Overkill makes it simple...

 

[winojoe]

That's no way to go through life, friend. Think about how it will sound when you say that to the family of the decedent, who's life was lost when your inability to safely brake your overtaxed vehicle combination caused a collision and their subsequent death.

"Damn the torpedoes!

Oh, and...sorry."

You needn't be interested in personal liability for it to be interested in you. It's plain that your mind is made up here, and validation is being sought. It is, in its own way, reassuring that prior and anticipated thread replies are providing the necessary gut check.

Anybody who makes Tom Petty references gets my immediate respect and now I'm compelled to address your comment.

First I'm not over the limit by 5000 lbs, it's 500 lbs at most. I think your sense of caution is a little over-dramatized and not well founded.

Second, and now I'm going down a rabbit hole, and there's math involved.

Before going down the rabbit hole, let me point out that manufactures determine the max tow weight such that it apples to all 50 states. The gotcha is that maximum speed limits while towing vary quite a bit from state to state. For example, Arkansas's speed limit while towing is 75 mph whereas the speed limit in my state (California) is 55 mph.

So before I do some math, Jeep engineers (and lawyers) are asserting that the Jeep is safe to tow 3500 lbs @ 75 mph. Let that breath for a second. Since you're wise enough to listen to Tom Petty then I'm sure you already know where I'm going with my argument.

Now lets dive into some math. The kinetic energy (defined as energy which a body possesses by virtue of being in motion) of a 3,500 lbs trailer going 75 mph (the towing speed limit in AR) is 892,00 Joules. According to Jeep, the Wrangler is safe towing 89200 Joules - meaning the brakes can safely stop that mass and the Jeep can turn sufficiently to be "safe".

So if 892,00 Joules is safe to tow, then how much weight could be towed at 55 mph and have equal or less than 892000 joules? The answer is 6,500 lbs.

In short 6500 lbs @ 55 mph has the same energy as 3500 lbs at 75. So 4,000 lbs at 55 mph has far less kinetic energy (548,420 J to be precise) than a Jeep driving legally at 75 mph towing 3500 lbs.

In short my conscience is clear if I should I injure myself or someone else while driving safely towing 4000 lbs at 55 mph? Why? Science says so.

I guess I'm a rebel without a clue... nah, JK, just felt good to close out with that.

https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php?given_data=energy&KE_units=joule&m=8500&m_units=pound+(avdp)&v=75&v_units=mile+per+hour&sf=0&given_data_last=energy&action=solve

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