JL welding Issues

[UNC Rubicon]

Just shared you video on facebook along with the various welding, steering, and trackbar threads and some pics emploring friends to make this viral.

If you shared it from the JL owners group, I doubt it will show up outside of that group.


You're more than welcome to use these direct links:

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[LLRubylady]

ON another thread, somebody spoke with the NHTSA
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...iled-track-bar-mount.13380/page-8#post-327852
read post #116

 

[Punisher308]

As a CWI, I checked my frame welds and found a lot of weld discontinuities and these are just the ones I have access to and can see. As for the frame being an integral part of the jeep these welds should be sound and complete. For a $50,000+ Jeep, I didn't think I would have to QC my own vehicle.

Looking on this forum I see two track bars failures with a possible third, I do have the X marked over my track bar like others do, but was that the only thing they looked at on these frames.

Going have to make an appointment with my dealer but I have vacations coming up where I need the Jeep.

FYI, Jeep was built first week in July.

Here are some of the weld discontinuities I found on my Jeep, I left a lot of photos out as it was starting to get repetitive.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

As a CWI, I checked my frame welds and found a lot of weld discontinuities and these are just the ones I have access to and can see. As for the frame being an integral part of the jeep these welds should be sound and complete. For a $50,000+ Jeep, I didn't think I would have to QC my own vehicle.

Looking on this forum I see two track bars failures with a possible third, I do have the X marked over my track bar like others do, but was that the only thing they looked at on these frames.

Going have to make an appointment with my dealer but I have vacations coming up where I need the Jeep.

FYI, Jeep was built first week in July.

Here are some of the weld discontinuities I found on my Jeep, I left a lot of photos out as it was starting to get repetitive.

As a CWI, what is your ideal resolution by FCA? Are you worried these welds are not structurally sound and may fail or are they acceptable?

 

[NCJeepn73]

As a CWI, I checked my frame welds and found a lot of weld discontinuities and these are just the ones I have access to and can see. As for the frame being an integral part of the jeep these welds should be sound and complete. For a $50,000+ Jeep, I didn't think I would have to QC my own vehicle.

Looking on this forum I see two track bars failures with a possible third, I do have the X marked over my track bar like others do, but was that the only thing they looked at on these frames.

Going have to make an appointment with my dealer but I have vacations coming up where I need the Jeep.

FYI, Jeep was built first week in July.

Here are some of the weld discontinuities I found on my Jeep, I left a lot of photos out as it was starting to...

I also had a CWI review my vehicle. He found the same issues are you pointed out, then some.

It's a hard pill to swallow that a $50k+ vehicle has this type of QC. All those beads with porosity and slag may start rusting and potentially failing in no time, especially in certain U.S. regions with heavier salt or coastal conditions... or some light mudding or off-roading. Crazy.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

Seems odd that Tower produced such questionable frames for production. They produce frames and components for many brands.

Why can’t they get it correct? Is it due to the galvanized steel? Due to the robot programming?

When setting up their production, wouldn’t they have reworked the stations to improve the quality?

Anyone know if the frame is completed at one single station or does it move along a production line to have various welds completed at different stations?

Are the samples we are seeing on this forum just early frames? Guessing not.

 

[UNC Rubicon]

Why can’t they get it correct? Is it due to the galvanized steel? Due to the robot programming?

When setting up their production, wouldn’t they have reworked the stations to improve the quality?

Are the samples we are seeing on this forum just early frames? Guessing not.

The Tower engineer that I spoke with said welding gavlanized frames is "a beast of a job." He also said, they are having to use different welding processes with the JL frames compared to the JKs.

He said porosity and orange discoloration is a byproduct of material the frame is coated in.

He said (in my case) the robot calibration was off (obviously).

I've heard from another source that the "problem frames" were built in November.

I'm sure I've repeated myself in different threads. But I just want to get what little information I have, out to you guys.

I do want to apologize for generalities and not having more specific information. It was a lot to take in, especially in a short amount of time and not being prepared to speak with the engineer.

 

[NCJeepn73]

The Tower engineer that I spoke with said welding gavlanizes frames is "a beast of a job." He also said, they are having to use different welding processes with the JL frames compared to the JKs.

He said porosity and orange discoloration is a byproduct of material the frame is coated in.

He said (in my case) the robot calibration was off (obviously).

I've heard from another source that the "problem frames" were built in November.

I'm sure I've repeated myself in different threads. But I just want to get what little information I have, out to you guys.

I do want to apologize for generalities and not having more specific information. It was a lot to take in, especially in a short amount of time and not being prepared to speak with the engineer.

Quite alright! I think, at the end of the day, we just all want safe vehicles, and for any owner's to be safe. Simple as that for me anyway.

 

[old8tora]

For a $50,000+ Jeep, I didn't think I would have to QC my own vehicle.

Well , you are more qualified than whomever they had . Very informative for everyone .

What would be your desired resolution , based on your experience ? [ for example , (a) re-weld on top of old welds ? , (b) remove old welds and then newly weld ? , (c) new frame construction with new welds ? , (d) swap out for different vehicle with better welds ? , or (e) refund and call it a day ? ]

 

[Punisher308]

As a CWI, what is your ideal resolution by FCA? Are you worried these welds are not structurally sound and may fail or are they acceptable?

As for my ideal resolution, I would need to have their inspectors/engineers look over it and for them to determine what course of action to take and get these fixed.

From a weld inspector standpoint I would like to know the welding code Jeep uses to weld these frames and then inspect those welds to that code. Doubt they would release that information.

 

[Windycityjeep]

Oh man on top of the bullsh#t calling out someone by his real name, it seems somewhat high risk to engage in personally calling out customers on an online community forum when it is obviously known now that you work for or have some relationship with FCA or Jeep brand. I cannot imagine FCA would find that best practice. We don't know you personally but there are not many people in this world whose continued employment is more important to a big corporation than the corporation's PR image and this is not a good look for them.

Anyway, I am no welding expert. I have literally ZERO knowledge about welding. I do however know that the side steps I ordered have welds that look like 48.5 times better quality than all of the welds posted here, and all they are supposed to do is support the weight of my little girls. These welds are unacceptable. This JL should be replaced and upgraded at no cost. Period.

And it should be done YESTERDAY!!!!!!!! 50 Grand for this????? Sounds terrible!!!

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

As for my ideal resolution, I would need to have their inspectors/engineers look over it and for them to determine what course of action to take and get these fixed.

From a weld inspector standpoint I would like to know the welding code Jeep uses to weld these frames and then inspect those welds to that code. Doubt they would release that information.

Porosity spec?
Post #74 in this thread

FCA spec is 6.4mm (sum of diameters) per 25mm of weld

 

[NCJeepn73]

Porosity spec?
Post #74 in this thread

FCA spec is 6.4mm (sum of diameters) per 25mm of weld

That was what my CWI could find. I imagine that it might be different. But there are manufacturer standards and there are, I believe, automotive standards for welds on vehicles. We referenced what was found online tucked away in some PDF doc from an FCA steel/galvanized materials specifications sheet. But would be nice to find more current documentation regarding these particular, ~40%+ galvanized frames.

 

[old8tora]

That was what my CWI could find. I imagine that it might be different. But there are manufacturer standards and there are, I believe, automotive standards for welds on vehicles. We referenced what was found online tucked away in some PDF doc from an FCA steel/galvanized materials specifications sheet. But would be nice to find more current documentation regarding these particular, ~40%+ galvanized frames.

What is this galvanized stuff , and how does that affect welds ?

 

[NCJeepn73]

What is this galvanized stuff , and how does that affect welds ?

The JL frames are 45% galvanized and electocoated. Here is a good article on welding this type of frame for the auto industry. It really taught me a few things.

Bottom line, robot weld speeds were/are set to high to meet production numbers, sacrificing quality in the form of more porosity and trapped zinc gas, which I assume leads to all of the orange colors we all see within our weld beads.

http://www.hobartbrothers.com/news/...Advancements-for-the-Automotive-Industry.html

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