JL welding Issues

[Zane6842]

After receiving a reply back from an engineer at NHTSA and communication over the past week or so he sent me a link to upload up to 100 images. I have about 200 total. But it is my understanding that NHTSA is now reviewing other frame welds on the JLs specifically.

The guy I've been speaking to has said they are compiling many photos, reviewing vehicles, and this whole weld ordeal with the track bar welds is likely going to be the tip of the iceberg.

Wow! Good to know what to expect then. Thanks for the info.

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[jforse]

After receiving a reply back from an engineer at NHTSA and communication over the past week or so he sent me a link to upload up to 100 images. I have about 200 total. But it is my understanding that NHTSA is now reviewing other frame welds on the JLs specifically.

The guy I've been speaking to has said they are compiling many photos, reviewing vehicles, and this whole weld ordeal with the track bar welds is likely going to be the tip of the iceberg.

ditto

 

[Puma_jeep]

Hey eveyone,

So my JL has shown up on the recall list I checked the welds, some are significantly better than others, especially the front to back.

I called into FCA they told me the recall was just announced, and that no resolution was available yet.

So I took it into my local dealership in MD, at first they wouldn't even look at it since a replacement "part" wasn't available... I has to explain the recall to them as they didn't even understand the issue.

Finally I convinced them to put it on the lift, but refused to give me a assessment of the welds as they said they are not qualified to inspect them. I asked if it was safe to drive since my wife drives it during the week with the kids, and they said I have to make that determination.

Can everyone take a look at the attach pics obviously you will see some in great shape others not so much but I am not sure how bad they are.

 

[Zane6842]

Hey eveyone,

So my JL has shown up on the recall list I checked the welds, some are significantly better than others, especially the front to back.

I called into FCA they told me the recall was just announced, and that no resolution was available yet.

So I took it into my local dealership in MD, at first they wouldn't even look at it since a replacement "part" wasn't available... I has to explain the recall to them as they didn't even understand the issue.

Finally I convinced them to put it on the lift, but refused to give me a assessment of the welds as they said they are not qualified to inspect them. I asked if it was safe to drive since my wife drives it during the week with the kids, and they said I have to make that determination.

Can everyone take a look at the attach pics obviously you will see some in great shape others not so much but I am not sure how bad they are.

So here we go! Round and round. The dealership wanted me out of the Jeep and into a loaner. This is day #6. Less than 4 weeks since purchase date. Got an email from the sales manger today.

“Good afternoon. I have an update for you.

Our Service Regional Manager from Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram for our dealership came by to inspect the jeep. He also selected another jeep off our lot and put them side by side in our shop and had them hoisted on the rack to inspect. He inspected all the areas that was pointed to (service manager) when you and (service manager) inspected the vehicle. The same inspection was conducted on both vehicles.

Inspection results revealed that the rust spots and holes indicated on the Jeep you bought was also on the other Jeep he inspected. The weld spots were identical and not compromised. He indicated that the rust was common on the areas of the Jeeps not painted. These areas only had surface rust and no signs of corrosion.

We would love to invite you to the dealership and have you pick any Jeep off our lot so we can hoist it on the rack and have you inspect it. They all look identical. When would you be able to set some time aside to do that? We also need to sit and discuss a way forward from here.

Thank you so much for your patience with us.”

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

So here we go! Round and round. The dealership wanted me out of the Jeep and into a loaner. This is day #6. Less than 4 weeks since purchase date. Got an email from the sales manger today.

“Good afternoon. I have an update for you.

Our Service Regional Manager from Chrysler Dodge Jeep Ram for our dealership came by to inspect the jeep. He also selected another jeep off our lot and put them side by side in our shop and had them hoisted on the rack to inspect. He inspected all the areas that was pointed to (service manager) when you and (service manager) inspected the vehicle. The same inspection was conducted on both vehicles.

Inspection results revealed that the rust spots and holes indicated on the Jeep you bought was also on the other Jeep he inspected. The weld spots were identical and not compromised. He indicated that the rust was common on the areas of the Jeeps not painted. These areas only had surface rust and no signs of corrosion.

We would love to invite you to the dealership and have you pick any Jeep off our lot so we can hoist it on the rack and have you inspect it. They all look identical. When would you be able to set some time aside to do that? We also need to sit and discuss a way forward from here.

Thank you so much for your patience with us.”

Yep, your welds are just as crappy as the other JL we inspected. No problems just like the sloppy steering. They all drive like that so it’s as designed by Jeep. Nothing to fix.

 

[Zane6842]

Yep, your welds are just as crappy as the other JL we inspected. No problems just like the sloppy steering. They all drive like that so it’s as designed by Jeep. Nothing to fix.

#jeepthing

 

[Rutterbg]

Alright so here are a couple of welds I can see just from getting on the ground and looking. If you ask me, all of those I posted have one issue or another. Dealership is going to put it on the lift so we can see how many more there are. In this scenario, do you think I should seek repair or buyback? This is also on top of a crap 5in radio that's full of bugs. All opinions welcomed! And if most think repair, should I be compensated some how?

REPAIR OR BUYBACK!?

 

[OrangeRuby]

Porosity spec?
Post #74 in this thread

FCA spec is 6.4mm (sum of diameters) per 25mm of weld

In the inspection and testing world, it doesn’t mean anything to make a quote like that. If you don’t have a hard copy of the document, it’s just opinion or rumor. I realize this is late to the conversation. For reference, I am a CWI and PE who is experiencing these weld issues on my 2018 JLUR.

 

[OrangeRuby]

Since you are a welder, you're a good man to ask. How do I go about finding a welder to come and inspect my jeep when it arrives at the dealer? Is there a CWI welder directory online? I can't seem to find one.

There is a way to verify credentials online, but I don’t know of a directory where you could just search for local CWIs. It’s important to note that the majority of CWIs don’t engage in consulting work. Generally, someone gets a CWI license so that they can evaluate welds as a part of their existing job. I would bet most CWIs use their credentials in addition to welding for a company. There are people who use their CWI credentials and act as consultants, but they are a much smaller population. I actually work for a materials testing laboratory. We do consulting work, failure analysis, materials characterization, etc. A big part of finding one is finding someone near where you live. Generally speaking, hiring one won’t be cheap.

 

[Sebuh]

Jeeps been at the dealer for a week now waiting on FCA welding repair tech to fix my bad welds.

The dealers techs admitted they are bad after I showed them the paperwork for the 6.4mm per 25mm check.

It would help a lot of people posted their weld pictures with a ruler beside them.

Here's my back driver bracside LCA bracket to frame weld.

The dealer tech admitted it was bad. Told service agent to send pics to FCA. FCA put a hold on the jeep til their tech gets to it and fixes it.

FCA lvl 2 support hasn't given me an ETA when they will have the tech there to fix it.

NHSTA investigator has received my pictures and wants to see the pictures after the repair.

Sorry for reading ANOTHER frame weld issue thread.

I am pretty sad, my Jeeps been at the dealer for a total of 20 days on 3 visits now.

Replaced batteries.
Repaired radiator leak

Now frame welds.

 

[jmcf1949]

Hyundai Mobis builds the frames I think.

The frame is built in Plymouth, Michigan by AGG( Tower Int.). Mobis turns it into a rolling chassis in Toledo.

 

[jmcf1949]

There is a way to verify credentials online, but I don’t know of a directory where you could just search for local CWIs. It’s important to note that the majority of CWIs don’t engage in consulting work. Generally, someone gets a CWI license so that they can evaluate welds as a part of their existing job. I would bet most CWIs use their credentials in addition to welding for a company. There are people who use their CWI credentials and act as consultants, but they are a much smaller population. I actually work for a materials testing laboratory. We do consulting work, failure analysis, materials characterization, etc. A big part of finding one is finding someone near where you live. Generally speaking, hiring one won’t be cheap.

A CWI would not be much help. To validate a weld they would need too much information that isn’t at hand. Training records, material certifications, part fit-up, and more.

 

[jmcf1949]

Probably not likely they'd replace the whole vehicle, but you never know. Not to oversimplify things but it wouldn't be terribly hard for a dealer to swap frames if FCA approved it. Toyota was swapping frames on some of their trucks years ago due to some quality issue. Forget if it was the T100, Tacoma or early Tundra's.

If anything FCA will swap out the frame. Not a terribly tough job with proper equipment.
If there are just a few suspect welds FCA standard repair procedures say grind out and re-weld with a similar method that was first used.

 

[Capricorn]

On my 2021 JLUW 3.0L, I see orange silica islands on the welds, but no porosity so far, though I haven't been able to take a detailed look yet. They appear to be fuse to the weld so I do not think they will pop out anytime soon and expose the bare metal leading to corrosion. Plus, I am in the driest part of US, no winter salt and not much humidity.
I will show it to the dealer when I go for my first oil change and have it documented. And also keep an eye every few months to make sure there is no rust on the welds.

 

[jmcf1949]

I have 20 years welding experience, have 7 state certs and was a certified inspector until I was injured......If there’s porosity, craters, undercut etc it’s unacceptable. Ask for another Jeep...

The FCA Engineering standard for arc welding allows all of these conditions. With limits of course. Measurements must be made to determine accept or reject.

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