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Which powertrain would you get?

Which engine would you order?


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viper88

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Yeah, my 2019 2.0 turbo JLUR is with me for the long haul. Only question with that is what engine I go with after the 2.0 tires out.
My bet is it will be a while if you are waiting for your 2.0 to die. There might not be any ICE choice by the time that 2.0 wears out. EV seems to be happening faster and faster.
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Headbarcode

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My bet is it will be a while if you are waiting for your 2.0 to die. There might not be any ICE choice by the time that 2.0 wears out. EV seems to be happening faster and faster.
Yeah, I might have to grab one now and pickle it until needed. 😆

Otherwise, I do enjoy the sweet sound of a Milwaukee brushless motor. ;)
 

_olllllllo_

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If I was buying new today, I would go ahead and get the Rubicon 4xe. I like the blue stitching.

But really, I figure if you’re going to have all that complicated electrification, might as well go all the way.
I know it wasn't an option due to the 8-speed auto, but I have the non-etorque V6 since I ordered a manual transmission.

Speaking of going all the way, I am hoping that there are a couple all-electric conversion kits for the Wrangler at this years SEMA, besides the Magneto concept from Jeep (also with the manual 6-speed).

My long-term plan once battery technology settles a bit (4680 or solid state) and the charge times decrease and range increases is to simply convert my existing Jeep. I have almost got it where I want it and it has been an amazing vehicle to date. Gears and a lift and it is pretty much done, except for ....
 

_olllllllo_

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Yeah, I might have to grab one now and pickle it until needed. 😆

Otherwise, I do enjoy the sweet sound of a Milwaukee brushless motor. ;)
I know electric is coming like freight train, unless synthetic fuel that is equally carbon neutral comes out in the next couple years. The biggest negative about electric is they seem to have as much soul as a toaster.
 

LFMS

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I would have taken the 2.0t as a second choice to my diesel followed by the 4xe. The 3.0 is literally a commercial duty engine. The 3.6 is dead last. It would require a supercharger but then you mind as well deal with the same things in a diesel or 2.0 with a warranty. With all the high torque EVs coming out I don’t see a resale value for an engine that struggles to put down 260 lb ft.
I'm a 2door guy, so my engine choices are rather limited lol, but in this case I didn't consider it because the OP didn't put it on the list. Yeah the 3.6 is a good engine, but it doesn't quite cut it for me, and with the increasing gas prices and poor fuel economy even less so.
 

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LFMS

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All,

I'm not certain why anyone wouldn't like the 3.6L especially mated with the ZF8 speed auto. The calibrators did a remarkable job with engine tuning and torque management. So many Jeep owners want their vehicles to behave like sports cars or perhaps even go-carts. Wranglers are designed, built and intended to go places that most other vehicles can't. This infers a certain constraint to the possible spectrum of power possibilities.

While admittedly the diesel sounds the most attractive on paper, it has many disadvantages. Emission control strategies greatly limit it's true power potential. Maintenance requirements are certainly more pronounced and the extra weight and suspension compromises will work against off-road agility, at least without some further modification(s).

The 4xe, of all the options available on this poll, would absolutely be the less capable overall Jeep power-plant. While hybrid technology fits more of a commuter purpose, it has the most baggage of hauling around ancillary weight and complexity. What happens when that 17 KW battery eventually degrades to the point of being useless in 4 to 5 years? Batteries are really expensive to replace. This powertrain to me only makes sense for a two year lease, certainly not a long term investment.

Lastly, not included in the poll would be the 2.0L Turbo. Why do you suppose this is? Would you ever consider this power plant with a naturally aspirated engine? Never going to happen, it would be way too underpowered for any type of utility vehicle. The turbo, its complexity and inherent lag is an absolute necessity to make the four banger application even possible.

Nope, from my perspective the tried and true naturally aspirated V6 Pentastar is the best choice. Some may say the new 392 V8 is clearly the most sexy, but as a former Powertrain Software Engineer, I can state from experience that better than 50% of all software features are to restrict, govern and limit applied torque in order to protect the powertrain components. So in reality, the 392 V8 will deliver in real-time basically the same horsepower that the 3.6 V6 will produce. There is an upper limit to the amount of power that can be applied instantaneously. If you want to spend an insane amount of money to essentially get the same delivered output as the V6, be my guest at increasing FCA (or Stellantis) profit margins.

For what it's worth.
Jay

With all due respect,

I didn't dislike the 3.6 mated with the auto, I just found it rather limited and thirsty in comparison to the 2.0. That doesn't mean that I want my jeep to feel like a sports car, which btw it totally doesn't, but I also don't want it to feel somewhat sluggish and heavy when I know that there are other powertrains that do a better job to mitigate that.

In regards to the diesel, I have had (turbo) diesel cars for the last decade, either with adblue or a just the self-cleaning particles filter, and there is no difference whatsoever in everyday usage and/or maintenance (maintenance is more expensive but the savings in fuel largely compensate it), unless you move to remote parts of Africa or Asia, where high quality fuel might be difficult to find. I don't plan on moving there, at least for now. Diesels are much better to drive nowadays than they were 15/20 years ago, and yes, they are still as reliable. My brother in law's 03 Passat wagon 1.9 Tdi is at 220k miles and keeps going as if it were new - it also has the original turbo.

For the 4XE, I completely agree with you that it targets a more urban/commuter/town purpose, which would be my case. It has however a 100000 miles/10y warranty on the battery, so you'll have to do a lot of miles to degrade it in 4/5 years, and when that time comes you'd just replace it - that's the cost of owning and maintaining vehicles and where the automotive industry is heading, not to mention that the savings and increasing prices in gas, could help offset a bing chunk of that cost.

As for the 2.0, I'm a bit confused by what you're saying. Talking about a naturally aspirated 2.0 is the same as me talking about a 3.6 V6 biturbo. I also don't partake in the usual narrative of turbo complexity and direct injection, etc. This is tech that has been more than studied, improved and proven over the years. I've had nothing but turbo powered engines over the years and I'm still waiting on the first one to fail, and if and when that happens I'll deal with it - it's inherent to every car owner that at some point something happens.

None of this is not to trash the 3.6, it is a very good and reliable engine and that is indisputable. I favor reliability with optimized performance and fuel economy, and for me the 3.6 doesn't deliver that, especially when compared to the 2.0. I have no doubts that any of these engines would have a long life, but we also need to look at the context that we're living in. ICE engines have their days counted, gas prices will only go up and emissions will be tighter, so I rather keep my 2.0 etorque where I get 26/27 combined (calculated at the pump) than a 3.6 etorque where the max I got was 18mpg. This is what works for me and I'm happy with it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will work for you, and that's okay.
 
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aldo98229

aldo98229

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Why do you guys think Jeep is not offering the 2.0T on Gladiator?

I have my suspicions, but I want to hear what others think.
 

LFMS

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I know it wasn't an option due to the 8-speed auto, but I have the non-etorque V6 since I ordered a manual transmission.

Speaking of going all the way, I am hoping that there are a couple all-electric conversion kits for the Wrangler at this years SEMA, besides the Magneto concept from Jeep (also with the manual 6-speed).

My long-term plan once battery technology settles a bit (4680 or solid state) and the charge times decrease and range increases is to simply convert my existing Jeep. I have almost got it where I want it and it has been an amazing vehicle to date. Gears and a lift and it is pretty much done, except for ....

Yes! I find it ridiculous that the environmentally friendly solution is to get rid of our current fleet in favor of a new one. We should be looking for solutions to convert and upgrade our current vehicle fleet, at least during these transition years we have ahead of us.
 

LFMS

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Why do you guys think Jeep is not offering the 2.0T on Gladiator?

I have my suspicions, but I want to hear what others think.
"Jeep will not offer its 2.0-liter I4 turbo engine in the Gladiator, The Drive reports. A Fiat Chrysler spokesperson told The Drive that "the 3.6-liter [V6] engine can handle the temperatures seen while towing," intimating that the Wrangler's four-pot might not be able to tow and haul with the best of 'em."

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2020-jeep-gladiator-no-turbo-engine-heres-why/
 

viper88

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And I recommend to anyone not to get all warm and fuzzy about getting a new vehicle after the warranty expires. Cost wise it's taking a huge hit. In normal times a 3-4 year old vehicle loses a lot of value and new one costs a lot more when compared to cost of keeping what you have.
For any vehicle it is always a trade off between depreciation and maintenance/repair cost.

You are correct, historically, on average most vehicles are cheaper to keep and repair. That might be changing with higher labor rates? Labor rates will go up much more in the future. Many McDonal's can't get employees for $16/hour. Labor rates in my area are rising for eveything. Labor is $180-$200 a hour at most dealers. I saw one Firestone charging $110/hour. Good independent shops in my area are over $100 a hour for labor.

Selling at 4-5 years is when most vehicles like Wranglers need major service, fluids, new tires, new brakes, batteries, belts, worn suspension and steering parts, and other normal wear and tear items. It can easily cost $1K for new tires, $600+ for brakes, etc. Cost for normal wear and tear, major service can easily be more than $2000 you don't do the work yourself. That money can be rolled into a new vehicle.

Historically Wranglers were the exception if you bought them right and sell them right.

Historically Wranglers have done exceptionally well as far as resale values and residuals go. Even taking into consideration the below average QC.

Historically AMC, Chrysler, Daimler-Chrysler, Fiat-Chrysler were not known for reliability. Now Jeep is owned by a Italian (FCA) and French (PSA) company. Neither country or brand is known for stellar reliability. You will need to fix things at today's labor rates of $100+/hour.

I drove my very early '97 TJ for over 200K. I kept records. It was by far the most unreliable vehicle I have ever owned. Just about every single part of my '97 TJ had to be replaced. Many parts very early in it's life. It would have been cheaper to buy and drive a Wrangler every 4-5 years and taking depreciation instead of repairing my '97 TJ. That is with me doing most of the repairs myself.

I also owned a '15 JK Freedon Ed for 2 years. I think the MSRP was originally $35K. I bought it for $33K out the door with taxes in 2015. Drove it for 30K miles and sold it for a hair under $30K. That's about $125/ month to drive it. I paid cash so I did loose the time value of money if I would have invested the $33K.

I also owned a '19 JLR. This year I sold the "19 JLR for more than what I originally paid brand new for it, taxes and all-in. Plus I had a .09% loan. I averaged 6% investing the money so I am actually ahead. I got paid to drive the '19.

I can order a 2022 for 6%-under invoice. I am replacing that "19 JLR with a brand new 2022 JLR for about $2K more because I am adding a couple of extra options and there were some minor price increases for inflation. The 2022 is actually cheaper than a like 2021 because there is more standard equipment on the 2022 Rubicon.

Granted this year and the shortages created a very unusual used car market. I do feel this market for used cars will carry into 2022. Someone who owns a 2-3 year old JL can realistically sell and buy a new JL for not much more than what they sell the old one for. This has never happened before. I would personally sell and buy.
 

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nsfw_andy

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I test drove both the 3.6 and 2.0, and the 2.0 is definitely more punchy and fun to drive.

I was set on the 2.0 but ended up ordering a 2022 diesel instead despite not being able to find one to test drive yet. Since it was only an extra 2700$ for a diesel compared to the 2.0T, I just said fuck it and went for it LOL.
 

_olllllllo_

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Yes! I find it ridiculous that the environmentally friendly solution is to get rid of our current fleet in favor of a new one. We should be looking for solutions to convert and upgrade our current vehicle fleet, at least during these transition years we have ahead of us.
Exactly. There are no current BEVs that excite me or fit my families lifestyle. The Jeep offers all the off-road capability we could want and more, plus we take the top and doors off. A single electric motor connected to the 6-speed and known 4-wheel drive system seems like a dream ... and you can't stall it. The big advantage is if you do the conversion and a few years later there is a massive battery tech update you can just upgrade and not get yet another vehicle. I bet all the current BEVs are going to get killed from a resale perspective in 5 years due to tech improvements (current iPhone 3G vs iPhone X in a few years as example).
 

LFMS

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Exactly. There are no current BEVs that excite me or fit my families lifestyle. The Jeep offers all the off-road capability we could want and more, plus we take the top and doors off. A single electric motor connected to the 6-speed and known 4-wheel drive system seems like a dream ... and you can't stall it. The big advantage is if you do the conversion and a few years later there is a massive battery tech update you can just upgrade and not get yet another vehicle. I bet all the current BEVs are going to get killed from a resale perspective in 5 years due to tech improvements (current iPhone 3G vs iPhone X in a few years as example).
I hope that they continue to improve the batteries for these models already on the market, some brands have their own battery maintenance service, like Renault that charges you monthly fee (think it’s like 50eur/month) and they’ll maintain the battery and replace as needed for no extra cost - but how long will that be for, or will these same batteries be improved?

Fia presented a concept in 2019 (https://www.fiat.com/fiat-concept-centoventi) that was supposed to be the future Panda (going back to the frugal origines). Obviously this is a city car (unless they make a panda 4x4 like the 1983 original), but the idea behind stackable batteries and lego interior and roof would be perfect for the wrangler! I guess it’s a matter of time, it does seem like the market is slowly heading that way…
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