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Turtleback Expedition and JLU Towing Capacity?

WhereRU_A-A-Ron

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Found this company after searching for trailers like most of you. We’re considering the 5x8 or 6x8 Rugged Rhino. Not sure if we’ll go all out for the Kong series but these trailers are priced VERY competitively.
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SuperNerdEE

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To answer a couple of questions about how I arrived at Turtleback, my answer I gave to alksion:

I've got 2 kids, 1.5 years and 4.5 years old boys, and a dog. My wife and I love camping and we enjoy taking the Jeep. We also want to eventually do more overlanding. We just recently went camping and even with a roof rack it is so hard to pack everything in the Jeep. So we knew we needed something for more storage.

We saw a family of 5 on our last camping trip about 4 weeks back and they had a Tuff Stuff trailer with an iKamper roof top tent. I spent some time talking about all that with them and it sold me on the idea. The Tuff Stuff Basecamp had a stove, a sink (I think) and lots of storage and a place for a RTT. They really seemed to like it so I figured I'd start there.

As a starting point, I looked at a basic trailer. Smittybilt has one and its $8k. And that's just a trailer that offers storage and a place for a RTT. So that's a good price to understand. For $8k you get a Smittybilt box on wheels. I wanted more: kitchen, water, power are a must. I'm looking for more of an inside-out RV experience. Anyway, this helped calibrate my pricing.

From my research, Tuff Stuff Basecamp trailers are China made and equivalent to Crux 1600. These trailers sell for ~$17,000-18,000k. Add a RTT and your in the 20's. Add an anex and awning and depending on brand you could approach $25k. But the Tuff Stuff trailers are really hard to find and I couldn't find much data on how to get one. Also being China built didn't inspire confidence. So I started to look around.

Off-the-grid's Switchback looked pretty good and has a starting price of $23,500. I liked the Switchback a lot actually, and it hit all my check boxes. But its very new. Like just started production this year new. I want something that's been around for a bit, not version 1.0. Also customizing the OTG it was difficult with their online tools. So it seemed like it could be a good trailer, but once you option it up you start to approach the cost of Turtleback or Patriot, and they've got a lot more experience. Turtleback's Expedition starting price looks lower than Patriot's X1N, but honestly once you start optioning the Turtleback up to be about the same as a Patriot X1N, the costs are VERY similar.

I contacted both companies. I like that Turtleback is local, and my wife like's the Expedition's pantry storage over the Patriot. I liked Patriot's airbag leveling system on the X1N and their slide-out fridge, but the Patriot lacks any steadying system to keep the trailer from swaying. Plus the Turtleback has propane plumbed in the trailer to the water heater/stove whereas with Patriot requires you to move around the propane tank to the stove or over to the water heater, depending on what you want to do. That to me is a bit annoying, not a deal breaker, but not great. Patriot is also made in Australia and lead times are over 1 year. That lead time and my preference to work with USA made broke the tie. I've also heard that getting replacement parts for Patriot trailers can be difficult, whereas Turtleback, at least for me, is only a couple states away.

In the end, the Expedition just offered everything we wanted and more. You can mix and match options listed, or just pick Tiers. I think that the suspension kit and max coupler is a must, and having an inverter is super handy. We also felt the upgraded roof rack was necessary for storage - we'd like to keep as much as we can in the trailer at all times and not have to burden the interior of the Jeep with a bunch of gear. Makes it easier to go impromptu camping. We wanted the pole storage tube as well, which stores the 270 degree awning poles and I find that super handy.

We figure we will use a trailer like this often. Not only to go camping with but for day trips to the beach (or lakes), where we can drive on the beach and setup for the day. As such, we wanted the trailer to be built to last so we also wanted the composite materials over wood. All that to say we just went with Tier 3. The extra's that it offered were everything we needed and a few more. Charging points at the rear are great if you want to power a fridge at the rear by the kitchen so that the fridge is where you are cooking.

I just ordered my trailer a little over a week ago. I can say working with Turtleback so far has been a wonderful experience. I recommend you reach out to them and start a conversation. As for tents, I ended up going with 23zero. iKamper is painfully expensive, although arguably the easiest to setup. But iKamper's aren't terribly comfortable, and for $4k that's just not okay with me. CVT was another option and are made locally out here in Oregon. A big tent to sleep my whole family would be about $3k, so I considered that as an option over iKamper. Ultimately, 23zero, though, offers more. Their tents stay dark and well insulated compared to CVT's thanks to some fancy fabric they offer, and a similarly sized tent is only $2k. It also comes with a 3" thick mattress. Additionally, they also offer an insert liner for only a few hundred $ if you want to camp in the winter or just want more warmth. CVT offers none of those things.

I wanted a nice awning, too, and one with good walls. Darche is my awning of choice, and walls can be purchased separately.

As for price, with the trailer, the upgrades, the tent, awning, and an anex, we are in for a little over $40k. So there you have it. That's been my journey for the last few weeks. Whether or not that price tag sits with you is your call and if it doesn't that's your business. But once you start pricing things out, all the features add up very quick, even if you were to build it yourself.
 

alksion

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@SuperNerdEE thank you for all your help. I went ahead and ordered a turtleback getaway pretty much specced out. Does anyone think it's crazy to put money into this before upgrading my 392 that has not been delivered yet? Haha.
 
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SuperNerdEE

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@SuperNerdEE thank you for all your help. I went ahead and ordered a turtleback getaway pretty much specced out. Does anyone think it's crazy to put money into this before upgrading my 392 that has not been delivered yet? Haha.
Nice! Send me pics when you get it! I’ll share too. Super exciting :)
 

alksion

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Nice! Send me pics when you get it! I’ll share too. Super exciting :)
Will do. I am think about making a quality video as there are not too many on YouTube for the getaway series. The few I watched were awful.
 

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SH556JL

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Woah - no comment on towing capacity but wow, $27,000 for that trailer?!? It looks amazing but I'd rather buy a boat...or another used Jeep...or pay for my kids college.
That trailer cost more then my first airplane... Trailer looks like something one could get from a military surplus auction and put a tent on. I would be browsing gov planet.
 

Adv_aw8s

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We have looked at the boreas campers and are pretty sold on them. Hopefully will be ordering one this winter. We like that we can haul two dirt bikes and two mountain bikes on it if we like. I'd definitely give them a look.
 

918JLRookie

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New to the Jeep experience and just completed our first outing to Yellowstone pulling this BADAC SD-10 Overlander Utility. This post is an attempt to explain the towing and MPG I experienced. Jeep is a 2019 Jeep JL Unlimited Sport with the 3.6 Auto/8 speed, 3.45 gears. 2.5" lift with 33" tires on 18" rims. I bought the Jeep as a second owner with 4k miles on it, and don't believe there was any computer flashing done for any adjustment on the tires, wheels or lift. ( Again I'm new to Jeep and really confused on whether that is even necessary or helpful)Trailer dry weight is 1600 lbs with 250 tongue weight. Loaded I would assume we had 1900 lbs moving down the road. Power and handling was outstanding, rolling down the highway at speeds greater than 65 vs mileage and shifting were what puzzles me. On the 1200 mile trip up to Yellowstone I never drove over 65 MPH and got an average of 12.5 MPG. What I found was for every MPH over 65 I drove, MPG suffered greatly. And moving 65 on an 80 MPH road was less than thrilling. Thus coming back, I drove mostly 70 MPH on the highway and averaged a mere 10 MPG. That being said at 70, I was hanging around 3200 RPM's and RARELY saw 7th gear, never 8th and found that it liked mostly hanging in 5th and sometime 6th. I had no overheating issues and again the towing experience was outstanding. My main concern was with the MPG and what I presumed was the tranny strain. I am at a loss if there is something I can do to help the Jeep move down the road a little easier, and/or get better MPG. Still having a hard time wrapping my head around re-gearing or if that would even be helpful. I do realize that a Jeep is like moving a brick down the roadway, but it just didn't feel right. Am I missing anything that would help.

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NCJL

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I own a Turtleback trailer. Purchased new last year. It is heavier than advertised. It is not as durable as advertised.
The paint job is good.
Would not recommend or buy again.
 
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SuperNerdEE

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I own a Turtleback trailer. Purchased new last year. It is heavier than advertised. It is not as durable as advertised.
The paint job is good.
Would not recommend or buy again.
Saw you sent me a pm on this but could you elaborate here? I think a lot of folks would be interested in your experience, the good and bad and specifics if you please.
 

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NCJL

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Saw you sent me a pm on this but could you elaborate here? I think a lot of folks would be interested in your experience, the good and bad and specifics if you please.
Try to make this short.

We picked up our new trailer from TB April of last year. We drove from Northern CA to pick up. Before leaving TB I mentioned that the tire was too close to the frame. I was told not to worry they do this all the time.
Once home I noticed the tire had been rubbing on the frame. Phone calls, pictures and emails resulted in us driving back to TB to have the suspension changed out to the ICON version. We supplied new rims and tires for the return trip. This was only a band aid.
Next problem was electrical.
The 120volt charging system for the batteries was not installed per manufacturer instructions. It was too small per battery and charger manufacturer. Also installed incorrectly. The wiring was stamped only connect to one battery. TB installed two batteries. The connections points were not even correct. It would take the batteries approximately 29 hours to charge. Only one battery would fully charge. The 2000watt inverter would only power up to a 600 watt load before shutting off due to low voltage from the batteries. This was do to the wiring between batteries and inverter being to small.
The battery monitoring system TB installed did not function and was not wired properly. A battery monitoring system is quite complex. To monitor the batteries. The wiring must be separated, done in such a manner that would allow the monitor to know what is going out and what is going in the battery. The wiring on the trailer that we bought was done in a manner similar to any utility type trailer, the frame is the negative. The return path/negative with a battery monitoring system must be done with wiring and separated from the tow vehicle. They did neither. TB sent me a $2,000.00 check to fix the electrical problem.
The suspension problems continued. This was do to many problems. Frame design, weight distribution and suspension design. It was scary to tow with the ICON suspension. My wife actually said fix it or sell it, not doing this anymore. Very hard to explain. When the trailer would hit a bump the suspension would cycle thru/react 3 to 6 times before settling down. Factor in hitting another bump before settling down and you have a scary situation.
To correct the suspension I removed everything TB and installed a Timbren off-road trailer suspension. This is what we originally ordered however TB couldn’t install it to work!?! Timbren has 2 versions for 3500 pound trailers. One that will see dirt and one that will only see pavement. TB uses the one that will only see pavement. This required frame modification. The result off this was a wider axle stance and a suspension that only reacts once to bump.
The water tank installed was not centered over the axle, it was pushed to the passenger side, same side as the water heater. The tank has no baffles. We could see the trailer rock back and forth with the water. I had a smaller custom tank built with baffles to help with the swaying.
The tire carrier is a joke. Attached to the frame with stainless u bolts that stretch and need tightening all the time. The latch side allows the tire carrier to bounce around making everything worse. With less than the 125 pound rated load on it the carrier would sage and need to be lifted too close.
The propane tanks do not match and need to be shuffled around when using the extra tank. You cannot tow with the extra tank in the to be used location. The regulator is not in the proper orientation.
The water pump is connected with hard pipe and metal connectors. This make its very loud and not manufacturer recommend.
I could go on….
 
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SuperNerdEE

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Wo
Try to make this short.

We picked up our new trailer from TB April of last year. We drove from Northern CA to pick up. Before leaving TB I mentioned that the tire was too close to the frame. I was told not to worry they do this all the time.
Once home I noticed the tire had been rubbing on the frame. Phone calls, pictures and emails resulted in us driving back to TB to have the suspension changed out to the ICON version. We supplied new rims and tires for the return trip. This was only a band aid.
Next problem was electrical.
The 120volt charging system for the batteries was not installed per manufacturer instructions. It was too small per battery and charger manufacturer. Also installed incorrectly. The wiring was stamped only connect to one battery. TB installed two batteries. The connections points were not even correct. It would take the batteries approximately 29 hours to charge. Only one battery would fully charge. The 2000watt inverter would only power up to a 600 watt load before shutting off due to low voltage from the batteries. This was do to the wiring between batteries and inverter being to small.
The battery monitoring system TB installed did not function and was not wired properly. A battery monitoring system is quite complex. To monitor the batteries. The wiring must be separated, done in such a manner that would allow the monitor to know what is going out and what is going in the battery. The wiring on the trailer that we bought was done in a manner similar to any utility type trailer, the frame is the negative. The return path/negative with a battery monitoring system must be done with wiring and separated from the tow vehicle. They did neither. TB sent me a $2,000.00 check to fix the electrical problem.
The suspension problems continued. This was do to many problems. Frame design, weight distribution and suspension design. It was scary to tow with the ICON suspension. My wife actually said fix it or sell it, not doing this anymore. Very hard to explain. When the trailer would hit a bump the suspension would cycle thru/react 3 to 6 times before settling down. Factor in hitting another bump before settling down and you have a scary situation.
To correct the suspension I removed everything TB and installed a Timbren off-road trailer suspension. This is what we originally ordered however TB couldn’t install it to work!?! Timbren has 2 versions for 3500 pound trailers. One that will see dirt and one that will only see pavement. TB uses the one that will only see pavement. This required frame modification. The result off this was a wider axle stance and a suspension that only reacts once to bump.
The water tank installed was not centered over the axle, it was pushed to the passenger side, same side as the water heater. The tank has no baffles. We could see the trailer rock back and forth with the water. I had a smaller custom tank built with baffles to help with the swaying.
The tire carrier is a joke. Attached to the frame with stainless u bolts that stretch and need tightening all the time. The latch side allows the tire carrier to bounce around making everything worse. With less than the 125 pound rated load on it the carrier would sage and need to be lifted too close.
The propane tanks do not match and need to be shuffled around when using the extra tank. You cannot tow with the extra tank in the to be used location. The regulator is not in the proper orientation.
The water pump is connected with hard pipe and metal connectors. This make its very loud and not manufacturer recommend.
I could go on….
Wow. I’m shocked you had so many issues. I have read/watched many reviews and all I could find was fairly glowing reports on Turtleback’s builds, dating back many years. That’s actually the reason I decided to go with TB: their experience level. This sounds like a nightmare. For the price they are asking I would have thought the quality would be much higher. I must say it’s hard to understand how TB would come up with a custom suspension that performed so poorly, and again reviews I’ve read have stated it’s a great upgrade.
Sound like they at least owned up to the electrical problem. But the rest… I just don’t see how they can sell something like this if it’s so bad. Did TB have any comment on your issues??
 

NCJL

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Had many phone and email conversations with the owner of TB. The story was basically that he had just purchased the company and was working through everything to make it better. I was told that if they did good he might even send more money my way.
I have built, wheeled and towed many vehicles over the last 20 plus years. I’ve bought dynatracs had AEV install a hemi in a Jeep and have worked with many aftermarket lift manufacturers. This is the second off-road trailer that I have purchased. TB is by far the worst experience I’ve had with an off-road purchase.
I also never found a bad review, however I have had on two separate occasions had someone stop at my campsite too talk about TB problems.
 
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SuperNerdEE

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Had many phone and email conversations with the owner of TB. The story was basically that he had just purchased the company and was working through everything to make it better. I was told that if they did good he might even send more money my way.
I have built, wheeled and towed many vehicles over the last 20 plus years. I’ve bought dynatracs had AEV install a hemi in a Jeep and have worked with many aftermarket lift manufacturers. This is the second off-road trailer that I have purchased. TB is by far the worst experience I’ve had with an off-road purchase.
I also never found a bad review, however I have had on two separate occasions had someone stop at my campsite too talk about TB problems.
Thanks for the info. Now I need to figure out what to do with this information. I’ve already put money down. I can understand issues surrounding a buyout or a lemon here or there but these issues you describe seem systemic. I will be discussing this with TB this afternoon.
 

alksion

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I ordered a getaway. Not an expedition. It sounds like your problems are real and I believe everything you’ve stated but can this be proven to be more widespread?
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