Thinking the unthinkable

[grandsrus]

My 2018 Sahara turned three years old last November. It only has 16,300 miles. It has Mopar lift, 35-inch tires, 4.88 gears, is fully equipped and has given me very few problems.

I’ve owned Wranglers for 14 years. But I barely drive this Jeep any more. Every time I get a chance, I hop in the Fiat Spider instead. I prefer the maneuverability, the precise steering, the fuel economy.

I don’t off-road like I used to anymore; I think I have developed a mental blockage towards bashing such a beautiful —and expensive— Jeep against the rocks. Driving the Jeep around town and on the freeway seems to have become a chore for some reason.

But I don’t know what else to get. Ideally, I’d want something a little nimbler, with AWD/4WD, that is comfortable, with room for four, is easy on gas, fun to drive, and doesn’t cost an arm an a leg. Body-on-frame preferred, but not required.

A few months back I placed an order for a 2023 Mini Clubman John Cooper Works. After waiting eight months, when the vehicle finally arrived I couldn’t pull the trigger. Paying $51,000 for a Mini was one of my holdbacks; another was my lack of trust in German/British durability. Otherwise, I think the vehicle would have fit the bill.

I don’t know what else get, though. I owned a Tacoma before: loved the solidity but hated the power train and the seats; I kind of like GMC Canyon AT4 but the interior is just old. I’m not considering Broncos. Grand Cherokee is out of the question: I’m not spending that kind of money, and I am pretty much done with Jeep dealers. I don’t like Subarus; they look like shit. But I’m open to Toyotas, Mazdas, GMs, and to some Hondas.

Any other thoughts? Suggestions? Keep the Jeep and suck it up...?

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[aldo98229]

Grand Cherokee Trail hawk

Nah. Test drove it several times; couldn't pull the trigger. Drives like a sedan.

I don't care for the looks --or the price-- of the new one either.

 

[imperial4ever]

Sales are down for Jeep in units sold yet the cost keeps inching up and up. I fear Jeep -Chrysler are going to cut their own throat.

I paid $63.000 for my 2023 JLR

I paid $21,XXX for my 2003 TJR

That is a $40,000 gap for a vehicle that to the average person on the street...show them a pic of a '55 CJ and a 2023 JL and see if they tell the difference, same profile. This is the secret to Sky HIGH profits and low sales numbers. Not sure how often Jeep changes dies in the body stamping machines. It does vary across lines and as low as 3000 stampings to as much as 10,000 stampings.

Only the doors on the Jeep have a body gap so stamping has no real radical changes. Can you say PROFIT!!! Same Profile since 1941. Anyone know of an American car with the same profile that has gone that long. Maybe pickup trucks do, but cars don't.

Awesome price for a new 2003 Rubi. I paid $19K for my new 1997 TJ Sport and the only option I ordered was A/C. So miss my 1997 TJ. Gave me an identity and chicks totally loved it. It was either 2 doors or we get you in a Cherokee.

 

[imperial4ever]

Remember when half doors were the default option and you had to pay extra for full doors?

Like my 97TJ took delivery in Feb of 1997??

 

[failsafe306]

LOL I remember when doors were an option and they were not made of metal either.

Well, technically they did have a metal frame, ?

 

[Nitehawk92]

Here in northern Washington we pay 9% sales tax on the full purchase price of an automobile. That’s $4,500 on a $50,000 Jeep, plus another $900 one-time charge in tags, registration and other incidentals.

Not counting all the money I’d lose trading this Jeep and buying another one, $5,400 is a lot of play money I can spend on this Jeep.

A Porsche is not me.

In Montgomery County Ohio the sales tax is 7.5%. But when I got my 2023 Rubicon on 12/15/22, I traded in another Jeep. All totaled I paid $47,000 after discounts and rebates for the Rubicon. My trade in was valued at $42,000. So I only paid tax on $5,000 (47,000 - 42,000), the difference between the two. Do other states not subtract the trade in for the purchase price and base the tax on that figure???

 

[aldo98229]

In Montgomery County Ohio the sales tax is 7.5%. But when I got my 2023 Rubicon on 12/15/22, I traded in another Jeep. All totaled I paid $47,000 after discounts and rebates for the Rubicon. My trade in was valued at $42,000. So I only paid tax on $5,000 (47,000 - 42,000), the difference between the two. Do other states not subtract the trade in for the purchase price and base the tax on that figure???

Nope. Neither California nor Washington do that I am aware of. I am sure there are other states that are the same.

On the other hand, I pay less than $100/year to renew tags.

 

[Nitehawk92]

Nope. Neither California nor Washington do that I am aware of. I am sure there are other states that are the same.

On the other hand, I pay less than $100/year to renew tags.

In Ohio it is $52 currently to renew your plates for another year. It doesn't matter how expensive the car is...

 

[Old Jeeper]

Awesome price for a new 2003 Rubi. I paid $19K for my new 1997 TJ Sport and the only option I ordered was A/C. So miss my 1997 TJ. Gave me an identity and chicks totally loved it. It was either 2 doors or we get you in a Cherokee.

I guess I should clarify. I was doing some consulting IT work for Chrysler and being a LONG time Jeep guy I it put in my contract that I could order a new (2003)Jeep when ordering opened up and buy it at employee cost.

They called one moring and told me Ordering would open up at 10 am and to get down to any dealer in Dallas and place my order. This led to placing the first public order for a Rubicon and I had Jeep Rubicon 1. It arrived in Dallas 2nd week of 2002 at the Dallas training facility and it had every single option except Auto Trans. I then stripped it down and sold everything, axles, Hardtop, Doors, carpet and built up from there. Dynatrac ProRock 60s F?"R ARB, Supercharged the engine and.

Jeep later contacted me and I spent 2 hrs with them giving them feed back and thoughts. GET THIS: At the very end Jeep Wrangler Mgr asked me: What would case you to not buy a Jeep again?

NO hesitation: Lose the Fold down windshield and the take off doors., if those go, then al you got is a Toyota Camry!

The Jeep Marketing Mgr leaned over and said to the Wrangler Mgr that the Windshield fold-down is going to go soon.

Wrangler brand Mgr said: This guy (me) has been driving Jeeps since 1965 and we better listen to him. I say we take this to the top at Chrysler.

This the underside of my hood, signed by the managers and the Rubicon engineering team. Jim Repp, the original co-founder and designer of the Jeep Rubicon. Known as the “Lunatic Fringe” he and partner Dave Yegge took a chance with innovative design and the rest is history. They signed it below, the 3rd & 4th sigs.

There you have it.

 

[imperial4ever]

I guess I should clarify. I was doing some consulting IT work for Chrysler and being a LONG time Jeep guy I it put in my contract that I could order a new (2003)Jeep when ordering opened up and buy it at employee cost.

They called one moring and told me Ordering would open up at 10 am and to get down to any dealer in Dallas and place my order. This led to placing the first public order for a Rubicon and I had Jeep Rubicon 1. It arrived in Dallas 2nd week of 2002 at the Dallas training facility and it had every single option except Auto Trans. I then stripped it down and sold everything, axles, Hardtop, Doors, carpet and built up from there. Dynatrac ProRock 60s F?"R ARB, Supercharged the engine and.

Jeep later contacted me and I spent 2 hrs with them giving them feed back and thoughts. GET THIS: At the very end Jeep Wrangler Mgr asked me: What would case you to not buy a Jeep again?

NO hesitation: Lose the Fold down windshield and the take off doors., if those go, then al you got is a Toyota Camry!

The Jeep Marketing Mgr leaned over and said to the Wrangler Mgr that the Windshield fold-down is going to go soon.

Wrangler brand Mgr said: This guy (me) has been driving Jeeps since 1965 and we better listen to him. I say we take this to the top at Chrysler.

This the underside of my hood, signed by the managers and the Rubicon engineering team. Jim Repp, the original co-founder and designer of the Jeep Rubicon. Known as the “Lunatic Fringe” he and partner Dave Yegge took a chance with innovative design and the rest is history. They signed it below, the 3rd & 4th sigs.

There you have it.

AWESOME thanks for sharing. Did you get your 03 Rubicon in that awesome Inca Gold Metallic?? Todays hues suck compared to that. Cannot even get Moss Green Pearl Coat as seen on my 97 TJ 2 DOOR.

 

[Canjeeper]

I guess I should clarify. I was doing some consulting IT work for Chrysler and being a LONG time Jeep guy I it put in my contract that I could order a new (2003)Jeep when ordering opened up and buy it at employee cost.

They called one moring and told me Ordering would open up at 10 am and to get down to any dealer in Dallas and place my order. This led to placing the first public order for a Rubicon and I had Jeep Rubicon 1. It arrived in Dallas 2nd week of 2002 at the Dallas training facility and it had every single option except Auto Trans. I then stripped it down and sold everything, axles, Hardtop, Doors, carpet and built up from there. Dynatrac ProRock 60s F?"R ARB, Supercharged the engine and.

Jeep later contacted me and I spent 2 hrs with them giving them feed back and thoughts. GET THIS: At the very end Jeep Wrangler Mgr asked me: What would case you to not buy a Jeep again?

NO hesitation: Lose the Fold down windshield and the take off doors., if those go, then al you got is a Toyota Camry!

The Jeep Marketing Mgr leaned over and said to the Wrangler Mgr that the Windshield fold-down is going to go soon.

Wrangler brand Mgr said: This guy (me) has been driving Jeeps since 1965 and we better listen to him. I say we take this to the top at Chrysler.

This the underside of my hood, signed by the managers and the Rubicon engineering team. Jim Repp, the original co-founder and designer of the Jeep Rubicon. Known as the “Lunatic Fringe” he and partner Dave Yegge took a chance with innovative design and the rest is history. They signed it below, the 3rd & 4th sigs.

There you have it.

How many times have you fold"ed down your windshield frame on your 03 ?

 

[Old Jeeper]

How many times have you fold"ed down your windshield frame on your 03 ?

You would be surprised. I have driven from Ft Worth to the Oklahoma State line and back. When I lived in AZ I would drive around with my windshield down.

I have driven Jeeps with the windshield down hundreds of miles in the winter and summer.

But what is important is that it is what makes a Jeep a Jeep

 

[Old Jeeper]

AWESOME thanks for sharing. Did you get your 03 Rubicon in that awesome Inca Gold Metallic?? Todays hues suck compared to that. Cannot even get Moss Green Pearl Coat as seen on my 97 TJ 2 DOOR.

Jeep Red. Of all the 17 or 18 Jeeps I have owned since '84: 1 Yellow, 4 Red, and the rest have been Green.

 

[aldo98229]

You would be surprised. I have driven from Ft Worth to the Oklahoma State line and back. When I lived in AZ I would drive around with my windshield down.

I have driven Jeeps with the windshield down hundreds of miles in the winter and summer.

But what is important is that it is what makes a Jeep a Jeep

If folding down the windshield “is what makes a Jeep a Jeep,” then I must be driving a Ford... ! ?

I’ve never folded down the windshield, and have no desire to do so. My guess is 99% of Wrangler owners don’t either.

IMO, what makes the Wrangler driving experience unique is the combination of the four coil suspension and the two solid axles. This I get to enjoy every single time, and no other vehicle offers it.

 

[imperial4ever]

If folding down the windshield “is what makes a Jeep a Jeep,” then I must be driving a Ford... ! ?

I’ve never folded down the windshield, and have no desire to do so. My guess is 99% of Wrangler owners don’t either.

IMO, what makes the Wrangler driving experience unique is the combination of the four coil suspension and the two solid axles. This I get to enjoy every single time, and no other vehicle offers it.

Exactly. Body-on-frame, solid axles front and rear, recirculating ball steering and so on and so forth which is why I feel in love with my TJ.

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