Thinking the unthinkable

[Old Jeeper]

My 2018 Sahara turned three years old last November. It only has 16,300 miles. It has Mopar lift, 35-inch tires, 4.88 gears, is fully equipped and has given me very few problems.

I’ve owned Wranglers for 14 years. But I barely drive this Jeep any more. Every time I get a chance, I hop in the Fiat Spider instead. I prefer the maneuverability, the precise steering, the fuel economy.

I don’t off-road like I used to anymore; I think I have developed a mental blockage towards bashing such a beautiful —and expensive— Jeep against the rocks. Driving the Jeep around town and on the freeway seems to have become a chore for some reason.

But I don’t know what else to get. Ideally, I’d want something a little nimbler, with AWD/4WD, that is comfortable, with room for four, is easy on gas, fun to drive, and doesn’t cost an arm an a leg. Body-on-frame preferred, but not required.

A few months back I placed an order for a 2023 Mini Clubman John Cooper Works. After waiting eight months, when the vehicle finally arrived I couldn’t pull the trigger. Paying $51,000 for a Mini was one of my holdbacks; another was my lack of trust in German/British durability. Otherwise, I think the vehicle would have fit the bill.

I don’t know what else get, though. I owned a Tacoma before: loved the solidity but hated the power train and the seats; I kind of like GMC Canyon AT4 but the interior is just old. I’m not considering Broncos. Grand Cherokee is out of the question: I’m not spending that kind of money, and I am pretty much done with Jeep dealers. I don’t like Subarus; they look like shit. But I’m open to Toyotas, Mazdas, GMs, and to some Hondas.

Any other thoughts? Suggestions? Keep the Jeep and suck it up...?

2022 Toyota GR-Supra

2023 Nissan Z

2022 Mazda MX-5 Miata


2022 Chevrolet Camaro


2022 Subaru BRZ


Nothing here will break the bank but they fun and cool cars

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[aldo98229]

2022 Toyota GR-Supra

2023 Nissan Z

2022 Mazda MX-5 Miata


2022 Chevrolet Camaro


2022 Subaru BRZ


Nothing here will break the bank but they fun and cool cars

I do like the Mazda MX-5 RF and the Toyota GR86. But I want to keep the Fiat. It does everything I ask of it, and more.

I have thought about a Dodge Challenger: I love the looks, carries four people in comfort, is fun to drive, and is more fuel efficient than my Jeep. But I don’t think owning two coupes would be the answer. Especially in this weather.

 

[Old Jeeper]

I do like the Mazda MX-5 RF and the Toyota GR86. But I want to keep the Fiat. It does everything I ask of it, and more.

I have thought about a Dodge Challenger: I love the looks, carries four people in comfort, is fun to drive, and is more fuel efficient than my Jeep. But I don’t think owning two coupes would be the answer. Especially in this weather.

IF you are a a builder and good with a wrench and welder I would find a good clean TJ, model does not matter and build it out.

The day before I ordered my JLR I found a 2004 TJR in Miami, 3907 miles on it, estate sale. Guy that ordered it had a stroke and retired he only drove about once a month on a Sunny dry day and around the neighborhood to warm up the engine and that was it. He did, family put it up for sale at $43k. I called said I would do it and I will be there in about 2 ½ hrs. He told me there is a guy form Ohio is is flying down and going to drive it back. and I have about 6 others who want it from here in FL and across the US.

First guy that shows up with $43k gets it. I had just left for Miami and the guy calls me back and says the guy from Ohio just landed and wil be here in 15 min, so its his, sorry.

Take away: If you like to build, find a clean, no rust no frame damage and build it out and you can make money on it. I should have NEVER sold my TJR and I never thought owing Rubicon #1 made it worth anything. I prob could have got some serious coin, $75k or so.

 

[aldo98229]

IF you are a a builder and good with a wrench and welder I would find a good clean TJ, model does not matter and build it out.

The day before I ordered my JLR I found a 2004 TJR in Miami, 3907 miles on it, estate sale. Guy that ordered it had a stroke and retired he only drove about once a month on a Sunny dry day and around the neighborhood to warm up the engine and that was it. He did, family put it up for sale at $43k. I called said I would do it and I will be there in about 2 ½ hrs. He told me there is a guy form Ohio is is flying down and going to drive it back. and I have about 6 others who want it from here in FL and across the US.

First guy that shows up with $43k gets it. I had just left for Miami and the guy calls me back and says the guy from Ohio just landed and wil be here in 15 min, so its his, sorry.

Take away: If you like to build, find a clean, no rust no frame damage and build it out and you can make money on it. I should have NEVER sold my TJR and I never thought owing Rubicon #1 made it worth anything. I prob could have got some serious coin, $75k or so.

Yes, some of those TJs keep making me turn my head. Especially those LJs!

 

[jollyjerry]

A Rotary is a whole new commitment on top of your marriage as well lol.

I wanted one since I was in high school and they are what got me into cars. Took a long time but the 10th Anniversary FC fell in my lap and straight traded for the Miata I had at the time.

Took about a year to get it running right, drove for a year and on a super cold December morning over boosted by 12psi and wiped an apex seal. Took too many years getting a new motor built and then had to buy the JLR for unrelated reasons so now she sits with a brand new motor in the engine bay waiting for me to have some spare money to finish putting her back together.

All that said I highly recommend one lol

A decade ago, a coworker had an old FC and let me borrow it for a week while my car was in the shop. That thing was a ton of fun. Lots of body roll, great noises, had to look at the tach and realize that I was shifting early by 3k each time. I followed his start up and cool down instructions, and read a lot about rotaries after that week.

 

[yokramer]

A decade ago, a coworker had an old FC and let me borrow it for a week while my car was in the shop. That thing was a ton of fun. Lots of body roll, great noises, had to look at the tach and realize that I was shifting early by 3k each time. I followed his start up and cool down instructions, and read a lot about rotaries after that week.

Yea nothing drives quite like a Rotary, and yea add in the 80s style of the car trying to kill you as you drive it makes it even more fun lol.

 

[nomographer]

I’ve owned Wranglers for 14 years. But I barely drive this Jeep any more. Every time I get a chance, I hop in the Fiat Spider instead. I prefer the maneuverability, the precise steering, the fuel economy.

I don’t off-road like I used to anymore

I hate to say it but futzing around with a bunch of reconfiguration just seems like a way to waste money, build up to loathing, and maybe reduce resale value. Nothing will magically change a lifted regeared Wrangler into a spider. Every change is a move away from off-road (which you don't need/want/enjoy) toward an idea of drivability (which you won't get). Sure if there's some problem fix it, but that doesn't seem to be the state of affairs.

Based on just this thread it's hard to prescribe, but based on your average length of ownership, it may be best to just sell it. Let actual need instead of perceived need induce the search for another vehicle, if one is needed at all. (Look I'm happy to have more Jeepy peeps, just trying to be realistic, if you aren't off-road, don't even like driving it, and mall crawling doesn't give you the same size boost anymore...).

Sell; save on insurance and maintenance. Start saving for the mobile home / EarthRoamer.

 

[aldo98229]

I hate to say it but futzing around with a bunch of reconfiguration just seems like a way to waste money, build up to loathing, and maybe reduce resale value. Nothing will magically change a lifted regeared Wrangler into a spider. Every change is a move away from off-road (which you don't need/want/enjoy) toward an idea of drivability (which you won't get). Sure if there's some problem fix it, but that doesn't seem to be the state of affairs.

Based on just this thread it's hard to prescribe, but based on your average length of ownership, it may be best to just sell it. Let actual need instead of perceived need induce the search for another vehicle, if one is needed at all. (Look I'm happy to have more Jeepy peeps, just trying to be realistic, if you aren't off-road, don't even like driving it, and mall crawling doesn't give you the same size boost anymore...).

Sell; save on insurance and maintenance. Start saving for the mobile home / EarthRoamer.

Got up the wrong side of bed...? Geez.

 

[aldo98229]

JLR 2dr here... I went from 285 to 315s. Lost maybe 1 mpg. I'm 6'2" and it is still easy enough for my 62 year old body to get into.

My thinking behind going from a 315 down to a 285 tire is less about getting in-and-out of the Jeep; more about reducing unsprung weight and contact patch. Both of which impact vehicle ride and handling —and fuel economy to some extent.

The fact that I’m now on 4.88 gears pretty much dictates that I stay with 35-inch tires.

 

[deserteagle56]

IF you are a a builder and good with a wrench and welder I would find a good clean TJ, model does not matter and build it out.

The day before I ordered my JLR I found a 2004 TJR in Miami, 3907 miles on it, estate sale. Guy that ordered it had a stroke and retired he only drove about once a month on a Sunny dry day and around the neighborhood to warm up the engine and that was it. He did, family put it up for sale at $43k. I called said I would do it and I will be there in about 2 ½ hrs. He told me there is a guy form Ohio is is flying down and going to drive it back. and I have about 6 others who want it from here in FL and across the US.

First guy that shows up with $43k gets it. I had just left for Miami and the guy calls me back and says the guy from Ohio just landed and wil be here in 15 min, so its his, sorry.

Take away: If you like to build, find a clean, no rust no frame damage and build it out and you can make money on it. I should have NEVER sold my TJR and I never thought owing Rubicon #1 made it worth anything. I prob could have got some serious coin, $75k or so.

Wow! You were willing to pay $43k for a 2004 TJR????

Makes me wonder how much I could sell my 2006 TJR for. Spotless body (desert Jeep, no rust) with only 51,000 miles on it...but, like Aldo, I'm just not driving it much anymore. It just sits in my garage taking up space.

 

[weeitsmikelee]

Clean ??

Wow! You were willing to pay $43k for a 2004 TJR????

Makes me wonder how much I could sell my 2006 TJR for. Spotless body (desert Jeep, no rust) with only 51,000 miles on it...but, like Aldo, I'm just not driving it much anymore. It just sits in my garage taking up space.

 

[TimmH]

My 2018 Sahara turned three years old last November. It only has 16,300 miles. It has Mopar lift, 35-inch tires, 4.88 gears, is fully equipped and has given me very few problems.

........

My JL is Turning 5 this year, and I have found it's not as useful to me as it once was. And I find it's not comfortable for longer drives.

It's somewhat sad to say, at the same time exciting, but in December I ordered a 2023 Colorado Z71. At this point in my life I think a truck is of more use to me, I'm not off-roading, not wheeling, or anything like that, so a simple mid-size P/U should work perfect for me. Z71 with lots of extras because I've grown accustomed to certain comforts as I've gotten older.

Got notice today that it is scheduled for Production the week of 2/27

 

[entropy]

Got up the wrong side of bed...? Geez.

lol...

But think about it Aldo. You don't seem to truly enjoy most of the experience of owning a Jeep. They are expensive, finicky, you dont like how they drive, they get bad MPG, they're somewhat uncomfortable, dealer sucks, etc...

You like and appreciate Jeeps, you have a very nice looking Sahara, but you just don't enjoy owning it that much.

You enjoy a better road driving experience as you state with the fiat.

Jeeps give you a modernized old-driving feel. To a lot of people used to modern cars, this feels like driving a shopping cart. Some of us actually enjoy the ride. Bumpy, jerks you around, you are way up there, and everything creeks like an old boat.

Are you ever, truly, going to enjoy owning a Jeep nowadays? or would you prefer the comforts of a modern car?

 

[Steph1]

Well, maybe you're ready to move-on. After owning wranglers for a few decades, I left in 2007, only to come back 6 years later. I had purchased a LR Discovery and fell head over heels for it, to the point of selling my TJ. I just wasn't driving it anymore. Ended up being a reliability nightmare, but remains to this day the vehicle I enjoyed the most to drive.

So do what you have to do and come back later if you wish.

I own an Audi Q5 and it is extremely reliable and pleasant to drive. I recently sold my Porsche 911 and must say it was also more than flawless. So not all German cars haver a bad reliability reputation. But, BMW and Mini do. So maybe you were right to avoid it.

I guess my choices in vehicles would be different if the roads up here in Eastern Canada weren't so darn bad. It is definitely Jeep country here.

 

[aldo98229]

lol...

But think about it Aldo. You don't seem to truly enjoy most of the experience of owning a Jeep. They are expensive, finicky, you dont like how they drive, they get bad MPG, they're somewhat uncomfortable, dealer sucks, etc...

You like and appreciate Jeeps, you have a very nice looking Sahara, but you just don't enjoy owning it that much.

You enjoy a better road driving experience as you state with the fiat.

Jeeps give you a modernized old-driving feel. To a lot of people used to modern cars, this feels like driving a shopping cart. Some of us actually enjoy the ride. Bumpy, jerks you around, you are way up there, and everything creeks like an old boat.

Are you ever, truly, going to enjoy owning a Jeep nowadays? or would you prefer the comforts of a modern car?

I go in cycles.

Best I can describe it is: I have a love-hate relationship with Jeeps. Love how the coil suspension feels over bumps and off-road, how easy they are to drive over curbs and in all types of weather; don't care for how they drive on the freeway; and I hate the dealers.

The latter is an acquired taste. I used to get swimmingly with my Jeep dealers, but they have become absolutely insufferable. To be fair, much of how poorly dealers treat us comes from how Stellantis treats them.

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