Thinking about a change

[Flip]

All show, no go— 155 HP

I dont mind, as long as its reliable.

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[Jamrock]

When customers who have been using a product for 35 years become disenchanted with the product, it is a sign of serious problems.

 

[2nd 392]

I dont mind, as long as its reliable.

To put it in perspective, I had it when I met my wife and she had a 24 year newer 78 “Big Bootie” with two more cylinders, 115 more cu in, and about 200 HP (net, ~ 250 gross) but weighed a helluva lot more. It would have been a good but humiliating race win for it, if the 54 had a better than the 2 speed powerSlide results could vary

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Again, I'm stating the facts. Like I said you can like whatever you want to. You can drive whatever you want to. The JL is better on and off road but maybe you like low power and poor handling, more (or less?) power to you. Claiming you like the TJ better while driving the significantly more expensive JL is lying to yourself if nothing else.

Guy, I’m not even in the argument. Just tired of reading it is all. I think everyone knows how you feel now.

 

[aldo98229]

Toyota...

Well they sure look like they are having fun.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Well they sure look like they are having fun.

They’re having fun now, however some will be butt hurt before the night is through.

 

[Tyler88]

I’ve had Jeeps for years (and before them IH Scouts). I have become ever more disenchanted as Jeeps have grown larger and more complex, while becoming more difficult to DIY repair. Medicore build quality, poor ride, and laughable “service” at dealerships combined with ludicrous pricing have taken the shine off the Apple. Buddy got a new Land Cruiser and frankly it’s nicer than anything Jeephas ever thrown together. I’m not into extreme rock crawling which is perhaps the only area Jeep will outperform the LC. It’s quieter, rides a Lot better, is much better built and has an actual dealer network that services them. Dunno if I’ll jump just yet or not but if I trade the JL off, I’m 99% sure it’ll NOT be for another Jeep

I agree with you and do like the LC but what you are getting for the money is terrible, currently you can get a Rubicon 4 door with discounts for the same price as the 1958 LC and I really do not like the interior of the 1958 besides maybe the seats it is like the interior of a $30k work truck for $60k you would have to go to the mid trim at least to get a nice interior then you’re already up to 65k at the cheapest and then it makes me angry how Toyota limits you For example, if you buy the mid trim land cruiser and want the premium sound system the only way to get it is to get the premium package and you get all this extra stuff Like I don’t like the cool box center console because I like to actually use it but they make you get it if you want anything else in that package because they don’t offer anything separately you want and it adds 5k to the price automatically. So now you are at 70k. And then don’t get me started on it requiring premium gas.

So I’m hoping Toyota addresses some of these issues in the future but anyway I did do a reservation on the new Scout Traveler with the gas extender coming out in a few years just for the heck of it since I like that, no idea though actually keep to the price or the look that they showed but it’s always refundable so it’s not a big deal

 

[2nd 392]

They’re having fun now, however some will be butt hurt before the night is through.

 

[autotragic]

When customers who have been using a product for 35 years become disenchanted with the product, it is a sign of serious problems.

The fact is people change too. Sometimes what you tolerated when you were younger isn't worth it when you are older. For instance I used to not care if my car had functioning AC or not...if it worked, great but if not oh well. Same deal with cruise control. Now days my requirements are working AC and cruise control. Another 20 years from now I might decide I have to have heated seats and steering wheel but so far I've been fine without those too. The fact is people change.

What pisses me off is when people change and expect everyone else to go along with their BS. I would prefer (and a lot of other people too I might add) if Wranglers didn't become watered down Toyotas since you know...people could just buy a Toyota if a Wrangler doesn't suit them anymore. Really that's what the Grand Cherokee is supposed to be for but Jeep has screwed that one up so much that its pointless.

There are enough different cars on the market that almost everybody should be able to find something they are happy with. Lets not fuck up the Wrangler trying to cater to every complainer on the internet. If a Wrangler doesn't make you happy there are alternatives.

 

[Squibbles]

Yeah you don't recall to replace 100s of thousands of engines and transmissions then get to brag about quality but you'd be amazed how many "normal" people have no clue and think Toyota/Honda can do no wrong. The "normies" don't matter to me personally. I don't care what car you buy as long as I don't have to make the payments. I will silently judge you for your poor choice but I'll tell you what you want to hear if you decide to talk to me about it.

Something else I think people forget is the more a vehicle is modified the bigger chance for the owner or shop to mess things up. Wranglers, mustangs, Camaros et cetera.
The build quality leaves something to be desired on wranglers but I don’t know that they’re really unreliable when you look at most modern vehicles. I heard a handful of people say stellantis improved wranglers quality as far as electrical issues.

 

[autotragic]

Something else I think people forget is the more a vehicle is modified the bigger chance for the owner or shop to mess things up. Wranglers, mustangs, Camaros et cetera.

There are far more bad/mediocre shops than there are good ones that's for sure. Even "big name" places have lots of drama and shoddy work, John Hennessey (famous/infamous Viper tuner) comes to mind. Egos and narcissism seem to run wild in the automotive aftermarket world.

 

[2nd 392]

The fact is people change too. Sometimes what you tolerated when you were younger isn't worth it when you are older. For instance I used to not care if my car had functioning AC or not...if it worked, great but if not oh well. Same deal with cruise control. Now days my requirements are working AC and cruise control. Another 20 years from now I might decide I have to have heated seats and steering wheel but so far I've been fine without those too. The fact is people change.

What pisses me off is when people change and expect everyone else to go along with their BS. I would prefer (and a lot of other people too I might add) if Wranglers didn't become watered down Toyotas since you know...people could just buy a Toyota if a Wrangler doesn't suit them anymore. Really that's what the Grand Cherokee is supposed to be for but Jeep has screwed that one up so much that its pointless.

There are enough different cars on the market that almost everybody should be able to find something they are happy with. Lets not fuck up the Wrangler trying to cater to every complainer on the internet. If a Wrangler doesn't make you happy there are alternatives.

The people that buy Jeeps have changed since the CJ days. Jeep introduced a fancier “Tuxedo Park” trim in 61 for 5’s and 6’s. They were given their own models 5A and 6A for 64 — 68. A total of 7,300 5A’s were sold, the longer 6A - 450 sold in 5 years. Fancy wasn’t wanted, fancy and bigger damn sure wasn’t. Now they can’t sell many 2dr’s and a majority appear too want auto everything, power everything, heated everything, more electronics, bigger screens, and bitch because the windows aren’t auto-up, the audio system isn’t good enough, and the f’ing gear shift knob isn’t heated. No, this old guy couldn’t stand a Willys CJ5 as a DD anymore like when I was younger, but Jeep won’t offer a 2dr with an acceptable drivetrain, and the 4dr with my priority option came with damn near every option standard— wanted or not.

 

[autotragic]

The people that buy Jeeps have changed since the CJ days. Jeep introduced a fancier “Tuxedo Park” trim in 61 for 5’s and 6’s. They were given their own models 5A and 6A for 64 — 68. A total of 7,300 5A’s were sold, the longer 6A - 450 sold in 5 years. Fancy wasn’t wanted, fancy and bigger damn sure wasn’t. Now they can’t sell many 2dr’s and a majority appear too want auto everything, power everything, heated everything, more electronics, bigger screens, and bitch because the windows aren’t auto-up, the audio system isn’t good enough, and the f’ing gear shift knob isn’t heated. No, this old guy couldn’t stand a Willys CJ5 as a DD anymore like when I was younger, but Jeep won’t offer a 2dr with an acceptable drivetrain, and the 4dr with my priority option came with damn near every option standard— wanted or not.

Mostly because Americans as a whole have gotten fat and lazy. I'm not saying I'm immune to this myself but I try to keep myself grounded at least a little bit. I once knew a girl that considered camping to be staying at a hotel without a pool...I've heard guys say their wife won't ride in a manual transmission car because she thinks they aren't smooth enough. There are a lot of people now days completely out of touch with reality. Car related and otherwise.

 

[2nd 392]

Mostly because Americans as a whole have gotten fat and lazy. I'm not saying I'm immune to this myself but I try to keep myself grounded at least a little bit. I once knew a girl that considered camping to be staying at a hotel without a pool...I've heard guys say their wife won't ride in a manual transmission car because she thinks they aren't smooth enough. There are a lot of people now days completely out of touch with reality. Car related and otherwise.

I’m guilty too a degree, my GTX had power nothing, except to the ground. Including brakes and steering, no AC.
My 63 MD was built to go fast on road and perform off road. The only “luxury” was Mustang buckets. Now I couldn’t stand things like the ride, no AC, or a worthless defroster, and want some comfort. A 2 dr Rubi 392 XR, close ratio Tremec 6 spd, crank windows, no upgrade stereo, black top and fenders, shove the beeps, honks, dings, flashing nannies, or some other “conveniences” , but not all.
Priced accordingly

 

[R3TRO]

I sort of did that. I bought a Gen 3 Raptor but kept the Jeep. I love the Raptor. So much more comfortable, and its one of the best driving/riding vehicles I've ever owned. My wife drives the Jeep when she needs to go into the office but otherwise it sits until we go wheeling, but the last few times we've gone out to play I've taken the Raptor. We even took the Raptor to Ouray and Moab last year instead of the Jeep.

But which one does the chicken like more?

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