JL welding Issues

[Capt-Zoom]

Been dealing with jeep corp office on mine. First person i was working with took a leave of absence due to death in family. Started again with second person but missed their call Thursday. Hoping to get a hold of him this coming week. I will post update when i have one.

So the new rep from FCA corp calls me back today. Acts like a d-bag on the phone and states that the previous corp person didn't offer a buy back because it wasn't in the notes. He refuses to listen to the phone call. Then tries to say i need to bring my jeep back to a dealer to be inspected again. So I call a different dealer and they are refusing to examine the frame since they say that the region already ruled on it. WTF.

I F'ing give up! I'm going to the Denver News.

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[old8tora]

Been dealing with jeep corp office on mine. First person i was working with took a leave of absence due to death in family. Started again with second person but missed their call Thursday. Hoping to get a hold of him this coming week. I will post update when i have one.

So the new rep from FCA corp calls me back today. Acts like a d-bag on the phone and states that the previous corp person didn't offer a buy back because it wasn't in the notes. He refuses to listen to the phone call. Then tries to say i need to bring my jeep back to a dealer to be inspected again. So I call a different dealer and they are refusing to examine the frame since they say that the region already ruled on it. WTF.

I F'ing give up! I'm going to the Denver News.

They got the money .

 

[LLRubylady]

They got the money .

Absolutely go to the news and get it on whatever media you can.
Tweet it, put on Reddit, everything.
Our local news station has a guy that does a shame on you which features stories like this.
As word gets out FCA will notice and maybe then they will do something for you.
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[amckinney]

Just bought my JLU Rubicon and saw this thread. Should I be concerned about these welds?

 

[NCJeepn73]

Just bought my JLU Rubicon and saw this thread. Should I be concerned about these welds?

When was your build date? It'll be inside the driver's door on the sticker in a 6 number format. Mine is 021414, for Feb 14 at 1400 hrs.

Regarding your welds... not good. A lot of slag, good amount of porosity with the pinholes, robot weld tracking off-line, not covering the intended lap weld lines, glob-type weld caps, overlapping, undercutting, etc.

With mine I have a LOT of pososity on critical components, like the front track bar bracket and rear sway bar. This is unacceptable. I've had at least 25, maybe more around 30, professional welders look at the welds first hand (5) and the rest through high res pictures. Every single one of them has said that its major oversight, dangerous, and they would never "pass" a vehicle with welds like it. One welder yesterday that works with weld robotics and is pretty high up for steel machine fabrication said "Wow! This is a Jeep Wrangler. Take it back immediately or get it lemon lawed. It is not safe to drive."

Mine has been at the dealership since last Monday for this very issue!! Still waiting for FCA techs to examine it.

The biggest issues I see with yours are the spots of porosity, because those holes will take on salt, dirt, etc and start to rust from within. It doesn't look like your porosity is as bad as some I've seen on here though. The second most concerning thing I see though is the amount of slag in the welds... the orange color that's showing through the welds where paint will not stick to. Slag is a byproduct of mig/steel welding and should be removed to expose the actual weld. Once the slag gets a little age, or you power wash your frame after off roading, or just on it's own will fall off. Once it does, that leaves totally exposed welds that will immediately start taking on rust then begin to fail at the weld joints. The off-line welds are a bit concerning too. If they don't cover or penetrate the intended steel, then the weld at that point is worthless and not doing its job.

Depending on your other welds you may have enough to warrant an inspection from FCA techs. Check the front track bar, rear sway, and other brackets connected to the frame that control steering and handling. Those are most critical.

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Just bought my JLU Rubicon and saw this thread. Should I be concerned about these welds.
]

When was your build date? It'll be inside the driver's door on the sticker in a 6 number format. Mine is 021414, for Feb 14 at 1400 hrs.

Regarding your welds... not good. A lot of slag, good amount of porosity with the pinholes, robot weld tracking off-line, not covering the intended lap weld lines, glob-type weld caps, overlapping, undercutting, etc.

With mine I have a LOT of pososity on critical components, like the front track bar bracket and rear sway bar. This is unacceptable. I've had at least 25, maybe more around 30, professional welders look at the welds first hand (5) and the rest through high res pictures. Every single one of them has said that its major oversight, dangerous, and they would never "pass" a vehicle with welds like it. One welder yesterday that works with weld robotics and is pretty high up for steel machine fabrication said "Wow! This is a Jeep Wrangler. Take it back immediately or get it lemon lawed. It is not safe to drive."

Mine has been at the dealership since last Monday for this very issue!! Still waiting for FCA techs to examine it.

The biggest issues I see with yours are the spots of porosity, because those holes will take on salt, dirt, etc and start to rust from within. It doesn't look like your pososity is as bad as some I've seen on here though. The second most concerning thing I see though is the amount of slag in the welds... the orange color that's showing through the welds where paint will not stick to. Slag is a byproduct of mig/steel welding and should be removed to expose the actual weld. Once the slag gets a little age, or you power wash your frame after off roading, or just on it's own will fall off. Once it does, that leaves totally exposed welds that will immediately start taking on rust then begin to fail at the weld joints. The off-line welds are a bit concerning too. If they don't cover or penetrate the intended steel, then the weld at that point is worthless and not doing its job.

Depending on your other welds you may have enough to warrant an inspection from FCA techs. Check the front track bar, rear sway, and other brackets connected to the frame that control steering and handling. Those are most critical.

When was your build date? It'll be inside the driver's door on the sticker in a 6 number format. Mine is 021414, for Feb 14 at 1400 hrs.

Regarding your welds... not good. A lot of slag, good amount of porosity with the pinholes, robot weld tracking off-line, not covering the intended lap weld lines, glob-type weld caps, overlapping, undercutting, etc.

With mine I have a LOT of pososity on critical components, like the front track bar bracket and rear sway bar. This is unacceptable. I've had at least 25, maybe more around 30, professional welders look at the welds first hand (5) and the rest through high res pictures. Every single one of them has said that its major oversight, dangerous, and they would never "pass" a vehicle with welds like it. One welder yesterday that works with weld robotics and is pretty high up for steel machine fabrication said "Wow! This is a Jeep Wrangler. Take it back immediately or get it lemon lawed. It is not safe to drive."

Mine has been at the dealership since last Monday for this very issue!! Still waiting for FCA techs to examine it.

The biggest issues I see with yours are the spots of porosity, because those holes will take on salt, dirt, etc and start to rust from within. It doesn't look like your pososity is as bad as some I've seen on here though. The second most concerning thing I see though is the amount of slag in the welds... the orange color that's showing through the welds where paint will not stick to. Slag is a byproduct of mig/steel welding and should be removed to expose the actual weld. Once the slag gets a little age, or you power wash your frame after off roading, or just on it's own will fall off. Once it does, that leaves totally exposed welds that will immediately start taking on rust then begin to fail at the weld joints. The off-line welds are a bit concerning too. If they don't cover or penetrate the intended steel, then the weld at that point is worthless and not doing its job.

Depending on your other welds you may have enough to warrant an inspection from FCA techs. Check the front track bar, rear sway, and other brackets connected to the frame that control steering and handling. Those are most critical.

100% agree. Report to NHTSA, bring to dealer for inspection. Then contact jeep cares for documemtation and the usual runaround. Finally email ceo mike manley and pray u get someone good.

 

[Jeep_Dude]

Just bought my JLU Rubicon and saw this thread. Should I be concerned about these welds?

The 1st and 8th picture are the same weld. Looks to have been repaired. All others I wouldn't be worried about.

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Just had a Q and A with a news channel in Denver. They are pitching the story to their editor.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

Just had a Q and A with a news channel in Denver. They are pitching the story to their editor.

Hope that station doesn’t have an advertisement contract with your local FCA dealer group.

 

[TheWingman]

When was your build date? It'll be inside the driver's door on the sticker in a 6 number format. Mine is 021414, for Feb 14 at 1400 hrs.

Regarding your welds... not good. A lot of slag, good amount of porosity with the pinholes, robot weld tracking off-line, not covering the intended lap weld lines, glob-type weld caps, overlapping, undercutting, etc.

With mine I have a LOT of pososity on critical components, like the front track bar bracket and rear sway bar. This is unacceptable. I've had at least 25, maybe more around 30, professional welders look at the welds first hand (5) and the rest through high res pictures. Every single one of them has said that its major oversight, dangerous, and they would never "pass" a vehicle with welds like it. One welder yesterday that works with weld robotics and is pretty high up for steel machine fabrication said "Wow! This is a Jeep Wrangler. Take it back immediately or get it lemon lawed. It is not safe to drive."

Mine has been at the dealership since last Monday for this very issue!! Still waiting for FCA techs to examine it.

The biggest issues I see with yours are the spots of porosity, because those holes will take on salt, dirt, etc and start to rust from within. It doesn't look like your porosity is as bad as some I've seen on here though. The second most concerning thing I see though is the amount of slag in the welds... the orange color that's showing through the welds where paint will not stick to. Slag is a byproduct of mig/steel welding and should be removed to expose the actual weld. Once the slag gets a little age, or you power wash your frame after off roading, or just on it's own will fall off. Once it does, that leaves totally exposed welds that will immediately start taking on rust then begin to fail at the weld joints. The off-line welds are a bit concerning too. If they don't cover or penetrate the intended steel, then the weld at that point is worthless and not doing its job.

Depending on your other welds you may have enough to warrant an inspection from FCA techs. Check the front track bar, rear sway, and other brackets connected to the frame that control steering and handling. Those are most critical.

Mine was built on the 10th of feb at noon, and my welds look similar to theirs. Nothing that looks immediately dangerous, but long term exposure to moisture is a concern. Haven’t taken to dealer yet, but thinking about it.

 

[NCJeepn73]

Mine was built on the 10th of feb at noon, and my welds look similar to theirs. Nothing that looks immediately dangerous, but long term exposure to moisture is a concern. Haven’t taken to dealer yet, but thinking about it.

Yeah, I hear ya. I'm ultimately worried about long-term, i.e. at least 5 years with some off roading. I've seen what welds look like when slag detaches from welds. It's not a good outcome, especially when a weld cannot be fully inspected containing lots of slag and when it wears off of the welds are pretty much just bare weld at that point.

 

[TaiMc]

Mine was built on the 10th of feb at noon, and my welds look similar to theirs. Nothing that looks immediately dangerous, but long term exposure to moisture is a concern. Haven’t taken to dealer yet, but thinking about it.

Yep...I've inspected some of mine that I can see..and they look "okay" based on what i've read on these forums and have seen with pics. However, I still told my Mopar Mechanic about it...and he told me he will be asking around about it and told me to bring mine in when I have the time as he will inspect it. I've known him since 2005...and only have allowed him to work on vehicles that I've owned. I'm sure he'll let me know if I have a prob or not. When I do hear from him, I'll post here if he gives advice about what should be done.

Thanks to everyone for posting your pics, and sharing your experiences...it really does help the rest of us that know nothing about the potential dangers that lie beneath us with these frames.

@JeepCares PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE look into these cases posted in this thread. if you haven't already. We need legitimate guidance regarding what our next steps should be to get these issues resolved. <3

 

[NCJeepn73]

UPDATE:

I picked up my Jeep today after 10 days at the dealership. I'll start out by saying the TSB (TSB 08-092-18) update for my loose steering did absolutely nothing to fix the very loose and dangerous wandering and over-correcting. It actually feels worse than it was before. I fought the steering all the way home at b/w 35-50mph on several back country roads. It was horrible.

Now, on to the welding. Where do I start???

An FCA certified welder finally arrived just yesterday (Wednesday) after my JLUR sat there for 8 days with nothing done to it. The job he performed on my welds are, in pretty much all re-welds, worse than they were to begin with. He skipped many welds that were obvious defects and still out of FCA spec for porosity, etc., only half-welded many bad welds or welded on top of already bad welds, didn't clear contaminants from welds he re-welded, and I just give up...

I'll just let you look at the results below.... and please keep in mind that this is only a very few select pictures added. I took nearly 100 pictures today in the garage. Again, I'm being selective since posting more tons of pics probably isn't ideal here in the forum.

Issues already noticed:

1. The FCA welder didn't grind the bad, porous welds down anywhere near the "toes" of the weld. You can see this clearly in the before/after pictures of the rear sway bar. The porous holes are seen in both pictures! Same for front body mount bracket and front track bracket pictures.
2. He ground down the front track bar bracket top outer lip and also ground into the frame just above it. I'm not a mechanical engineer but my recollection of physics engineering classes reminds me that there are certain strength properties lost when taking away from the thickness of welded metal joints. Maybe I'm wrong on this?
3. He didn't prep/clean the areas well enough, causing even more spatter, paint cracking, and lower penetration.
4. Many of the worst weld areas weren't even touched!

Discussing a replacement at this point.

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Yikes. I would not accept those. Its just masking the problem cosmetically. You cannot put a weld over a porous weld...especially one that has slag on it. The only way to really make sure the new welds are good is to completely ground down the weld and put a new one in. Further you'd want to use either a frame jig or at minimum a bunch of clamps to keep it from moving. What they did to yours is unacceptable.

 

[NCJeepn73]

Yikes. I would not accept those. Its just masking the problem cosmetically. You cannot put a weld over a porous weld...especially one that has slag on it. The only way to really make sure the new welds are good is to completely ground down the weld and put a new one in. Further you'd want to use either a frame jig or at minimum a bunch of clamps to keep it from moving. What they did to yours is unacceptable.

I've never seen frame welds mutilated in this way and then given it back with a "here you go. everything should be fine now" reply. My main welder contact already checked the re-welds and said they basically just ruined brackets and welds. He also mentioned what you did -- that to do it right the welds should have been taken all the way to the bracket lips, disconnected, all areas cleaned appropriately, then re-welded. It just looks like really bad lipstick on a turd at this point.

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