JL welding Issues

[NCJeepn73]

Yikes. I would not accept those. Its just masking the problem cosmetically. You cannot put a weld over a porous weld...especially one that has slag on it. The only way to really make sure the new welds are good is to completely ground down the weld and put a new one in. Further you'd want to use either a frame jig or at minimum a bunch of clamps to keep it from moving. What they did to yours is unacceptable.

I've never seen frame welds mutilated in this way and then given it back with a "here you go. everything should be fine now" reply. My main welder contact already checked the re-welds and said they basically just ruined brackets and welds. He also mentioned what you did -- that to do it right the welds should have been taken all the way to the bracket lips, disconnected, all areas cleaned appropriately, then re-welded. It just looks like really bad lipstick on a turd at this point.

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[Capt-Zoom]

So I spend the day dealing with tons of bullshit. The FCA Colorado District head has banned the local dealers from seeing my jeep even though corporate wants it in for another frame check. So I've basically got a 5,000 mile Jeep JL that cannot be seen for warranty. I continue to leave messages for various people in FCA. I'm now randomly calling numbers I find on dex to try to find someone at FCA who actually cares about customers. I've talked to people at the Stamping plant and the toledo plant and haven't really gotten anywhere. Supposedly the lady who first offered me a buyback will be back from extended leave on Monday so we'll see if she'll actually continue her buyback offer or play dumb and refuse to honor her own offer. Pretty much feel like the JL is hopeless right now. after seeing the reweld pics from NCjeepin73 I definitely wouldn't allow them to do that since its just a cosmetic mask. Half of me wants to take this JL and part it in front of FCA and Tip it over to show everyone how bad the welds are. The very same welds that they feel are normal and in our FCA district inspectors words "on all 2018 JL's"

 

[Capt-Zoom]

I've never seen frame welds mutilated in this way and then given it back with a "here you go. everything should be fine now" reply. My main welder contact already checked the re-welds and said they basically just ruined brackets and welds. He also mentioned what you did -- that to do it right the welds should have been taken all the way to the bracket lips, disconnected, all areas cleaned appropriately, then re-welded. It just looks like really bad lipstick on a turd at this point.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those aren't even welds. I'd bet they just mixed up some epoxy and filled them.

 

[NCJeepn73]

Forgot to add, I found a crack already in one of the crossmember welds

 

[NCJeepn73]

Every time I purchase something , I insist on an ironclad contract guaranteeing perfection , or my money back . Simple . On a special order , they will sign , or lose the sale , gambling that everything will be cool ; ( but , in the meantime , they put in a special word to Toledo to make it good ; so I get the quality I want .)

Not a bad idea. I wish you luck for finding places to sign such a document. I was offered one of the lifetime max service contracts to be added to my Jeep. But I refused it on this Jeep since it's so screwed now with the welds.

 

[Capt-Zoom]

The document is signed on the desk of the general manager of the dealership , and is written by me ahead of the special order . As no money changes hands at the time of the special order , everyone is out nothing at that time . Once it is signed , strings are pulled and the extra care is given all around . It is called "fairness" when it is in writing ahead of time .

If I buy as an innocent naïve buyer , they require arbitration , and my only recourse is Lemon Law .

If I buy as a contractural buyer , with my terms in the contract , then everyone seeks to make it good in the first place .

( And the sweetener for them , is that I will not try to force them to discount their profit ; I merely want a proper Jeep .)

Care to share this contract with us?

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Jeepzilla !

Thats what i planned on calling this JL but now it is known as fragilla because of the weak welds

 

[old8tora]

Care to share this contract with us?

Not really a contract , because no consideration paid . Just a written handshake , really . Write your own , with what you want , and how you want it in your special order . As no money has changed hands , there is no consideration , so it is not really a contract . Just their promise to provide you with what you want in your special order . And your promise is to pay their fair price , upon inspection and delivery of your special order .

Not legally enforceable , but a gesture of good will and good faith on both sides .

I would only special order a basic Sport . No add-ons . Simplicity and Affordability are big pluses in special ordering any vehicle .

Anyway , you will want to special order and buy in your state of residence , for Lemon Law protection , and to get a lifetime max care warranty , just to be careful .

As far as possible , also check all reviews of the dealerships , and try to find and meet in-person managers who are straight-up .

 

[jmcdtucson]

Find a good lemon law lawyer and put on retainer. That's my advice.

 

[MI_JEEP]

UPDATE:

I picked up my Jeep today after 10 days at the dealership. I'll start out by saying the TSB (TSB 08-092-18) update for my loose steering did absolutely nothing to fix the very loose and dangerous wandering and over-correcting. It actually feels worse than it was before. I fought the steering all the way home at b/w 35-50mph on several back country roads. It was horrible.

Now, on to the welding. Where do I start???

An FCA certified welder finally arrived just yesterday (Wednesday) after my JLUR sat there for 8 days with nothing done to it. The job he performed on my welds are, in pretty much all re-welds, worse than they were to begin with. He skipped many welds that were obvious defects and still out of FCA spec for porosity, etc., only half-welded many bad welds or welded on top of already bad welds, didn't clear contaminants from welds he re-welded, and I just give up...

I'll just let you look at the results below.... and please keep in mind that this is only a very few select pictures added. I took nearly 100 pictures today in the garage. Again, I'm being selective since posting more tons of pics probably isn't ideal here in the forum.

Issues already noticed:

1. The FCA welder didn't grind the bad, porous welds down anywhere near the "toes" of the weld. You can see this clearly in the before/after pictures of the rear sway bar. The porous holes are seen in both pictures! Same for front body mount bracket and front track bracket pictures.
2. He ground down the front track bar bracket top outer lip and also ground into the frame just above it. I'm not a mechanical engineer but my recollection of physics engineering classes reminds me that there are certain strength properties lost when taking away from the thickness of welded metal joints. Maybe I'm wrong on this?
3. He didn't prep/clean the areas well enough, causing even more spatter, paint cracking, and lower penetration.
4. Many of the worst weld areas weren't even touched!

Discussing a replacement at this point.

Let me get this straight, you complained about some porosity in a few welds, outlined the welds you were concerned about. Presented them to your dealer who sent them to FCA who sent someone to fix what the complaint was about. Correct?

The issues were addressed, resolved, and presented to your dealer service manager (Jerry) and service writer (Ryan) who confirmed the worked was performed that was outlined by the customer you Brian.
Correct?

And you have previously mentioned you have ZERO knowledge in welding and are unsure what you are looking at.
Correct?

Now because you failed to outline ALL issues or concerns you were experiencing with your JL to your dealer. You feel the need to put Jeep on blast for not addressing everything that you are now seeing after the inspection.
Correct?

Guess you can't make some people happy.

-moderator note. Removed real name.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

How much would you lose if you just traded it in on a new Jeep? Ask for that difference. If FCA or your dealer thinks there is nothing wrong with your welds, they should have no qualms taking your JL on trade and selling it to another customer.

 

[MI_JEEP]

And how do you know all the details since you have not posted before ? The weld posting forum members appear sincere to me , but I am merely an amateur reader . Please tell us your authority for your detailed information . Are you CEO Mike Manley , who knows all at FCA , and who will correct their welds ? How about the thread "Track bar sheared off at the weld" ? How did that happen ? Thank you for being their friend .

Be reasonable why would Mike be here? He has people to do that for him.

I've followed that post from day 1. that vehicle was repaired and given back to the customer. This vehicle had no welds physically fail during operation. And I would never suspect any to fail during the vehicle life span.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

95% of Jeep owner’s will never inspect their welds, maybe 99%. A defective weld won’t be detected until it fails, even those failed welds won’t be detected unless it’s responsible for a failure of a major chassis component such as steering or suspension, as was the case with the OP’s track bar mount.

 

[bilash31]

Deleted

 

[Capt-Zoom]

Easy ... easy ... whatever happened with the welding robots and the fca welding apologists , it wasn't that lady's fault . If she plays hide-and-seek with her offer , she is being told by some wuss to do that . Be polite with her because she is merely a salary slave .

And best wishes for your successful outcome .

Not calling her dumb at all. Fact is i hope shes doing well considering she just had a death in her family. Im just to the point where i have little faith in fca at all.

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