Head gasket time already?

[Jamrock]

I've seen the difficulty of replacing head gaskets, which isn't something I am interested in doing at home, it would be a couple hours a day until completion, motor R&R sounds easier. Then there is the chance of finding a flat cam. As long as this issue has been going on, I have concerns there may be cylinder wall/ring damage from the coolant displacing the oil. I asked the dealer to call Jeep cares with their diagnostic info and they told me to do it myself, the dealer doesn't care at all. They could not even tell me if the tech took it apart or just tested for hydrocarbons in the coolant.

I have seen similar reports from other members. The dealers don't want to get too involved with head gasket issues. Once the vehicle is under warranty, they request a new engine and move on.

Perhaps it has something to do with the contractual arrangements with Jeep re: warranty work. Perhaps they know something about the issue that we don't.

I really don't know.

Sponsored

 

[tk1700]

Cheaper


Cheaper to swap a motor than replace a head gasket? I think not!

In my situation with a blown 3.6 head gasket at just over 50k miles, they said coolant had gotten into the cylinder which diluted the oil and the cylinder was scored. This equated to an engine replacement. Currently at 8 weeks waiting to get it back. Reman MOPAR engine is supposed to arrive at theater any day now.

 

[Jamrock]

I am seeing more of these cases. This seems to be the standard dealer response.

Did they say what caused the coolant to get into the cylinder?

 

[bikenutty]

I am seeing more of these cases. This seems to be the standard dealer response.

Did they say what caused the coolant to get into the cylinder?

Negative, so far all communication has been cryptic at best. I gave details and the work order was not written to include them, the report from the dealer says nothing technical, just "blown head gaskets" which I don't think is technically the case. I agree with others that the head bolts were not torqued correctly from the start, nothing has occurred that would cause head warpage or gasket failure as far as excess heat or running hard when cold. I have built/rebuilt so many different types of engines in my life, 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles/ATVs, boat engines, 4,6 and 8 cylinder automotive, bored cylinders, replaced valve guides and seats... I just have no interest in doing anything of the type to my Jeep... I want to drive it, its not a project/toy.

 

[Remorseless]

Negative, so far all communication has been cryptic at best. I gave details and the work order was not written to include them, the report from the dealer says nothing technical, just "blown head gaskets" which I don't think is technically the case. I agree with others that the head bolts were not torqued correctly from the start, nothing has occurred that would cause head warpage or gasket failure as far as excess heat or running hard when cold. I have built/rebuilt so many different types of engines in my life, 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles/ATVs, boat engines, 4,6 and 8 cylinder automotive, bored cylinders, replaced valve guides and seats... I just have no interest in doing anything of the type to my Jeep... I want to drive it, its not a project/toy.

Honestly there's probably no details because it's standard procedure for the majority of service depts to just replace the engine in instances like this instead of performing a super detailed RCA. A cracked head or a sealing failure due to head warping or undertorquing means that the head itself is done or the mating surfaces are out of spec due to warping or untrustworthy due to possible erosion from coolant flow for an unknown amount of time and it's more expensive to figure out which (because, again, there's no way you actually blew through an MLS head gasket), and the odds of a return complaint because of knock-on problems is high, and so they just yoink the engine out and stuff a new one in (unless you get a service dept that pulls a Crazy Ivan and goes for the gaskets, which I wouldn't trust).

 

[Franger]

I knew the valvetrain and coolant burn issues before I came back to my first Jeep since my beloved ‘91 Cherokee Sport (bulletproof I6…I digress). But I wanted a friggin Jeep you know? This and a couple other known JL issues are 100% why I decided to lease a car for the first time in my life. It’s cheaper month over month and I’ll have a covered Pentastar for the entire lease term. Sure I can’t mod it quite like I’d prefer (you can do more than you think) but dang, it seems car reliability past a certain lifespan is poor for modern vehicles. I‘ll be happy to put low octane and crummy 0w-20 in this thing per the manual and not bat an eye.

I‘d also argue that Stellantis isn’t that worried about bigger gears and tires on this engine. The 24Y package in my JLU is 35s and 4.88 gears. It’s medium sluggish on Colorado interstates going uphill and I frequently end up in 6th or 5th and 4500rpm trying to hang onto 70mph. Their problem, not mine.

 

[Jamrock]

Here is the thing.

If we knew the cause, we could do some preventative maintenance. Like setting a proper torque on the bolts. It is all well and good when this happens under warranty. It is inconvenient but not expensive. What if the issue arises after the warranty has expired?

 

[mwilk012]

Negative, so far all communication has been cryptic at best. I gave details and the work order was not written to include them, the report from the dealer says nothing technical, just "blown head gaskets" which I don't think is technically the case. I agree with others that the head bolts were not torqued correctly from the start, nothing has occurred that would cause head warpage or gasket failure as far as excess heat or running hard when cold. I have built/rebuilt so many different types of engines in my life, 2 and 4 stroke motorcycles/ATVs, boat engines, 4,6 and 8 cylinder automotive, bored cylinders, replaced valve guides and seats... I just have no interest in doing anything of the type to my Jeep... I want to drive it, its not a project/toy.

The details don’t matter, I wouldn’t have written it up either. The history and warranty details don’t matter to the tech.

 

[Jamrock]

As you answer your question as to why it failed so early, the common thought is the heads aren't being properly torqued at the factory leading to premature gasket failure. The amount I've seen blown at ~60k miles is frankly absurd.

So how do you make sure the head is properly torqued on your Jeep? Some of these vehicles will be out of warranty in the not too distant future. Free engine replacements won't be an option for these owners after that.

 

[DaltonGang]

Class Action??

 

[JeepCares]

Well the dealer sent me a report/estimate. I gave the service writer the exact story, symptom and history. Now I see he took all the time to write up my concern as "using coolant", that's it.

I look at the technicians notes, and I quote, "head gaskets blown...................................."

$4,000 to repair, $3500 labor. Unbelievable the level of incompetence (at least this dealer). I asked specifically for borescope images of the inside of cylinder(s) and got nothing.

@JeepCares please help resolve this issue. I did not cause it!

Hi @bikenutty,

We have just responded to your private message. Please message us back there with the requested information. Thank you.

Blair
Jeep Cares

 

[bikenutty]

Class Action??

I hope it won't get to that point for anybody, @JeepCares has helped resolve any issues I've had so far.

 

[JT1]

We've been seeing 3.6Ls blow headgaskets constantly between 50-75k. You're a bit under, but not by much. It's a build quality defect, it either blows very early like yours or doesn't blow at all. It's just so common no diagnostic is needed beyond verifying there aren't any external leaks. A misfire on cold start is a dead giveaway. It's so common that if I get a 3.6L in that mileage range with a misfire DTC and I open the hood and see the coolant bottle empty I immediately walk away and write it up for a cylinder head gasket, no further diagnostic needed. Comically common.

As you brought the vehicle to the dealer before the warranty expired with a coolant burning issue but they came in with a "could not duplicate" I'd suspect you have a good chance at getting it good willed due to a paper trail of this issue existing before the warranty expired. I'm almost certain the dealer didn't feel like dealing with it during your last visit that they simply said they couldn't find an issue. It's frankly ridiculous considering how obvious the issue was from your original post.


As you answer your question as to why it failed so early, the common thought is the heads aren't being properly torqued at the factory leading to premature gasket failure. The amount I've seen blown at ~60k miles is frankly absurd.

@alphawolff how undertorqued are the headbolts? Is this possibly a case where a torque check before it blows could prevent the issue?

 

[alphawolff]

@alphawolff how undertorqued are the headbolts? Is this possibly a case where a torque check before it blows could prevent the issue?

No clue. When we pull the heads we just take the bolts out. If they were 5-10 ftlb under spec we'd never know.

By the time you're at a point where you can check head bolt torque tear down wise you're like 15 minutes away from just pulling the head off anyway. I don't see a point in doing it preventatively. They don't ALL blow, but if they do it'll be around that mileage.

 

[mwilk012]

No clue. When we pull the heads we just take the bolts out. If they were 5-10 ftlb under spec we'd never know.

By the time you're at a point where you can check head bolt torque tear down wise you're like 15 minutes away from just pulling the head off anyway. I don't see a point in doing it preventatively. They don't ALL blow, but if they do it'll be around that mileage.

Why do you replace the heads vs sending them to a machine shop?

Sponsored