FRAM Ultra @20K Miles

[DanW]

Any of you guys used a royal purple filter to test durability? Synthetic media with 99% at 25 microns and 80% at 10 microns. Seems really good.

That's a good filter. I could see that one subbing in if I couldn't get my hands on a Fram. Those numbers outperform Mobil 1 and Wix (Napa).

I'm betting it is a Purolator Boss. They show 99% at 25 microns, too. Also rated for 20k miles. Update: Their website shows 15k for this one, but that may be old info. Not sure. Still a good solid filter in terms of filtration.

I think Amsoil markets a good one, too. I'll have to check.

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[Hearhear]

Why not just use a Mopar oil filter?

 

[OllieChristopher]

How about just changing the filter at every oil change? Why take such a gamble of ruining an engine just to prove a point? Is it really that hard?

I'm willing to bet the members here will not hear a word about a blown up or oil burning motor after a few hundred thousand miles on it. Doing these 20K filter change experiments is not smart at all. Using these bottom of the barrel Fram's is worse.

I can never understand someone like myself who likes to get hundreds of thousands of miles out of my rigs would use junk filters and run them 20k miles.

Service intervals of 200 hours on Generators and 3,000-5,000 miles on vehicles since I was a teenager is real proof of longevity. Never once have I seen an oil/filter related failure or burning oil (exception CAT motors burning oil) in over 40 years and hundreds of engines I serviced.

I have seen dozens of oil burners and ruined engines over the years due to lack of lubrication maintenance to know better than to trust overextended service intervals.

This is my point of view and experience. It will never waiver no matter how much data from a paper chart is put in front of me. Just as some of you will continue to experiment and embrace Blackstone results, tribologist's on BITOG and Fram filters.

I am curious though of how many engines the OP has pulled apart and looked at? Compression tests? Monitoring oil use per oil change intervals? Pulling off valve covers to inspect? Valve adjustments? Measuring cam, crank, bearing wear?

 

[cs2k]

The FRAM Ultra series aren't they same as the junky paper FRAM filters that are only good for 3k. These seems to be high quality stuff with synthetic filter media and can rival any other top quality filter. They are also priced accordingly.

That being said, I think its a terrible idea to go 20k without changing your filter, no matter what the manufacturer says. The manufacturer of the filter probably tested for the 20k interval under ideal circumstances. There are just too many different factors such as your driving style, the chemical make-up of the fuel you use, the particular casting you have, the amount of contaminants that your engine is exposed to that can affect that interval.

5k intervals is a cheap insurance. In addition, many "big" issues can be diagnosed by looking at the condition of your oil. Are there metal chunks? is your oil milky? Changing every 5k, it gives you another way of noticing these bigger issues before they get really bad.

 

[Strommen95]

How about just changing the filter at every oil change? Why take such a gamble of ruining an engine just to prove a point? Is it really that hard?

I'm willing to bet the members here will not hear a word about a blown up or oil burning motor after a few hundred thousand miles on it. Doing these 20K filter change experiments is not smart at all. Using these bottom of the barrel Fram's is worse.

I can never understand someone like myself who likes to get hundreds of thousands of miles out of my rigs would use junk filters and run them 20k miles.

Service intervals of 200 hours on Generators and 3,000-5,000 miles on vehicles since I was a teenager is real proof of longevity. Never once have I seen an oil/filter related failure or burning oil (exception CAT motors burning oil) in over 40 years and hundreds of engines I serviced.

I have seen dozens of oil burners and ruined engines over the years due to lack of lubrication maintenance to know better than to trust overextended service intervals.

This is my point of view and experience. It will never waiver no matter how much data from a paper chart is put in front of me. Just as some of you will continue to experiment and embrace Blackstone results, tribologist's on BITOG and Fram filters.

I am curious though of how many engines the OP has pulled apart and looked at? Compression tests? Monitoring oil use per oil change intervals? Pulling off valve covers to inspect? Valve adjustments? Measuring cam, crank, bearing wear?

While I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiment, the thing is he's essentially proven that there's no gamble with the filter he's using. It's also been proven that the Fram Ultra is a top tier filter. So, while I have no gamble in this discussion, I have to chuckle that you talked about "data" earlier in this thread and conveniently ignored all data posted because it doesn't fit your bias.

 

[mwilk012]

I wonder who makes that filter? Looks like they're done with selling filters. Just buy the STP if you want the RP.
Royal purple oil filters have gone downhill? | Bob Is The Oil Guy

STP?

 

[DanW]

Why not just use a Mopar oil filter?

Why not just get a Bronco?

 

[OllieChristopher]

I have to chuckle that you talked about "data" earlier in this thread and conveniently ignored all data posted because it doesn't fit your bias.

Actually if you read my post a few pages back you will understand my biased view and why ignore the BS Blackstone "data".

I had experience seeing a rod that blew through a Volvo block and destroyed the engine. The oil sample sent out showed no indication as to why the engine failed. My company VP, boss and myself all agreed to never waste money on Blackstone ever again.

The failure was determined only by carefully disassembling the engine and inspection of parts. Root cause was a clogged oil filter from technician doing oil changes and not changing filter. This caused a chain of events including the bypass to open and dirty oil circulated causing oil galleries to clog and lose oil pressure.

Also determined the LOPS switch was faulty. Instead of installing a new one the technician bypassed it.

So yes, I am 100% biased and disregard any data that has to do with Blackstone. For me it is nothing but a novelty. The over $250.00 cost for Blackstone PCB oil and filter analysis will buy me a lot of oil and filter changes. Heck just a simple PC/SA was close to 50 bucks in the 90's. I'm sure the price has increased since then.

Consumers have got sucked into the "internet craze" and websites like BITOG. This has led to the popularity of Blackstone. If you want to be budget minded and are curious, simply purchase Chevron branded oil and they will test oil samples of their product for free.

 

[Hearhear]

Why not just get a Bronco?

Well, yea, both Ford and Fram products have dubious quality histories. I can see the correlation there.

 

[AlgUSF]

This is quite a thread.
I'm new to the Jeep brand and usually change my Honda oil once the maintenance minder indicates. It seems like the Wrangler 3.6L oil life monitor will go to zero around 8400mi. That isn't too far out of the realm of where I change my oil on the Odyssey and the 10K intervals for the Tundra (it takes 2 gallons of oil).

I change the filter on each oil change and couldn't imagine going 20K on the same filter.

 

[CarbonSteel]

How about just changing the filter at every oil change? Why take such a gamble of ruining an engine just to prove a point? Is it really that hard?

I'm willing to bet the members here will not hear a word about a blown up or oil burning motor after a few hundred thousand miles on it. Doing these 20K filter change experiments is not smart at all. Using these bottom of the barrel Fram's is worse.

I can never understand someone like myself who likes to get hundreds of thousands of miles out of my rigs would use junk filters and run them 20k miles.

Service intervals of 200 hours on Generators and 3,000-5,000 miles on vehicles since I was a teenager is real proof of longevity. Never once have I seen an oil/filter related failure or burning oil (exception CAT motors burning oil) in over 40 years and hundreds of engines I serviced.

I have seen dozens of oil burners and ruined engines over the years due to lack of lubrication maintenance to know better than to trust overextended service intervals.

This is my point of view and experience. It will never waiver no matter how much data from a paper chart is put in front of me. Just as some of you will continue to experiment and embrace Blackstone results, tribologist's on BITOG and Fram filters.

I am curious though of how many engines the OP has pulled apart and looked at? Compression tests? Monitoring oil use per oil change intervals? Pulling off valve covers to inspect? Valve adjustments? Measuring cam, crank, bearing wear?

Yes, yes, and what if the moon was made from cheese? You spoke earlier about how I need to know my audience as if I were trying to sell something.

What you do not know and I did not pound my chest to say is I have torn apart plenty of engines in my 57 years, I am not a novice to any of this nor is this my first time to run an Ultra for 20K miles. I did not just wake up one morning and make that decision.

What you also need to acknowledge is no one is going to pull apart a perfectly running engine to check wear which is where UOAs come into play as a stop gap to monitor engine oil health and to a degree engine wear.

Last, but not least nearly EVERY OEM on the planet recommends 10K oil changes including the filter. Honda does this and recommends changing the oil filter every other change which would be 20K miles (oh, the horror!). Funny, I don't see or read about tons of Hondas failing due to this process. OEMs actually DO perform torture tests and tear down the engines to see how they are faring and have more data than any of us will ever collect.

So while you can remain in the 1980s (where oil and filters barely lasted 3K miles before allowing the engine to develop serious varnish which leads to sludge) and where apparently no amount of data will change your mind, the vast majority of the world has moved on. The FRAM Ultra is not a bottom of the barrel filter and I challenge you to prove it otherwise. You keep saying that, what data do YOU have to prove your statement?

I will say this--I am positive that my Jeep is better maintained that the vast majority of them and yes, I check oil consumption between changes and it is a big fat ZERO. The oil is being changed every 5,000 miles, somehow you gloss past that and move to "I'm destroying my engine with long filter change intervals".

The data does not bear out your theory in the slightest, but I am happy to agree to disagree with your opinion because unlike your opinion, I do have data to back up my decisions.

Oh and BTW, I am not using Blackstone, I have said that before. I use a fully ISO 17025 certified lab that uses current and accredited ASTM testing processes--unless something has changed Blackstone does not hold ISO certifications.

 

[Retrograde]

Anyone that keeps their filter in longer than a single oil change interval should know about this caution in the service manual.

I ran into this last oil change I did...

I went to do an oil & filter change, and I'd couldn't find the new filter. Screw it, I said, I'll get it next time, and just changed the oil. I cracked open the filter housing for 'ventilation' but didn't remove it completely, as I didn't want the mess. I then changed the oil.

As I was cleaning up, I found the new filter I had misplaced. I hadn't started the engine yet, so I thought Super! I opened the housing again to change the filter. As I pulled the filter out, there was a plopping noise as the filter broke free from its seat, and I watched as almost a quart of dirty oil disappeared into the engine.

Shit! Not only did I now have a bunch of dirty oil in with the new oil, but I also now had almost 6 quarts in the sump, and we all know that's not good. Great. More work...

Long story short & lesson learned: ALWAYS change the filter with the oil, and always do the filter FIRST.

 

[AlgUSF]

The FRAM Ultra is not a bottom of the barrel filter and I challenge you to prove it otherwise.

+1 on FRAM Ultra filters. I've used them on my Civic for 20 years and 270K, I would figure that probably 90pct of the filters were FRAM Ultras from Sam Walton's Market. Civic engine runs great, never had any sort of internal engine issues and the valvetrain looks brand new. I haven't been overly religious on oil changes and the engine runs like a champ.

Below is a picture from my last Timing Belt change and you can get an idea of how clean the valvetrain is.

 

[OllieChristopher]

What you do not know and I did not pound my chest to say is I have torn apart plenty of engines in my 57 years, I am not a novice to any of this nor is this my first time to run an Ultra for 20K miles. I did not just wake up one morning and make that decision.

That's good to know and gives me pause as to why you would push maintenance intervals beyond what common sense dictates.

What you also need to acknowledge is no one is going to pull apart a perfectly running engine to check wear

When you race for points/money then it's important to do a teardown after each event. Also I tear down perfectly running 2T motors to do top ends. I don't wait for them to rattle. 4T's as well to do valve adjustments at the required hours/miles. Both our Lexus's have had multiple valve checks and shim replacements in their 20+ years of service.

Last, but not least nearly EVERY OEM on the planet recommends 10K oil changes including the filter. Honda does this and recommends changing the oil filter every other change which would be 20K miles (oh, the horror!).

Those recommendations are to meet EPA standards. We must also realize most consumers do not keep vehicles long enough to realize the damage being done by sloppy maintenance.

Oh and BTW, I am not using Blackstone, I have said that before. I use a fully ISO 17025 certified lab that uses current and accredited ASTM testing processes--unless something has changed Blackstone does not hold ISO certifications.

They are all the same. Blackstone being the more common and widely used.

 

[OllieChristopher]

+1 on FRAM Ultra filters. I've used them on my Civic for 20 years and 270K

Well it is a Honda, after all

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