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Flat-tow Set-up

lightsout

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I don't, nor have I suggested, I 'have all the answers". But I have asked on this and practically every other thread, as well as a standard google search for any examples of the Rockford Bumper failing as a flat tow option. Now I did give links to documented Blueox failures.

Lightout, do you have any documented examples of a Rockhard or LOD bumper failure during flat tow use?

The Rockhard representative that posts on this forum has stated there have been no documented failures. He certainly could be lying. I wouldn't know.

Dude get it through your head it is not the bumpers that are the issue. it is not the concern of Mopar whether the aftermarket bumper fails, that is not their liability. The issue is how the bumper connects to the frame and that Mopars says the frame is not engineered to flat tow any vehicle via the bumper attachment point. Rock Hard, Smitty, and LOD all make great bumpers, that is not the issue what-so-ever they only issue I see that they have is recommending to tow via the Wrangler bumper frame connection and going against Mopar...

The Lawsuits will be with the point of failure which would likely not be the bumper but the Wrangler OEM frame plate where the bumper attaches.

Again I encourage for anyone to do what I did and contact Mopar before you make any decision, they will likely tell you as they did me that you should not use the Frame end for towing and it is not designed for that. They were OK with a frame attached tow plate and that is their recommend connection, I assume they feel the frame itself will not be the cause of any potential failure (which I agree). Had they told me a Bumper connection was OK I would not be having this discussion and I would be enjoying the LOD bumper I ordered and then had to cancel after talking to Mopar. I would also encourage the aftermarket bumper companies to provide a statement from Mopar that it is acceptable to tow from the frame end-plates.

In Sept when I tried to set up for Bumper towing I also called several bumper manufactures and all but LOD and RH mirrored the Mopar statement I got from Mopar, which is why there are so limited bumper tow options.

I prefer the aesthetics of bumper towing but I am simply not willing to risk my assets and everything I have worked for my entire life to be at risk via negligence and going against the vehicle OEM manufactures statements and positions. This is my decision others may be willing to take that risk while likely small, that is certainly their choice, I am only sharing what I have learned I encourage others to do the same and not make decision based people on a forum.
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ROCK HARD 4X4

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I cannot imagine trusting this to tow 5000lbs
I had posted earlier I wouldn't respond further since I felt we'd made our point to you, but this is where you are simply misinformed.

Look in that same photo. See those red tow hooks? Fully capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle from the frame horn, and furnished by MOPAR. Now look at every single winch plate on the market, including MOPAR's. Again, reliant on the frame horns.

We then must agree MOPAR trusts the frame horns to support weight of the entire vehicle.
 

lightsout

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I had posted earlier I wouldn't respond further since I felt we'd made our point to you, but this is where you are simply misinformed.

Look in that same photo. See those red tow hooks? Fully capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle from the frame horn, and furnished by MOPAR. Now look at every single winch plate on the market, including MOPAR's. Again, reliant on the frame horns.

We then must agree MOPAR trusts the frame horns to support weight of the entire vehicle.
There is a huge difference between towing out of a ditch or snow with a rope or cable that has some flex versus towing thousands of miles with 1000's of stops and starts on a solid connection. Are you suggesting that Mopar would endorse flat towing 1000's of miles from those points? Are you saying you have documentation from Mopar saying it is OK to flat tow from the Frame-plate or the Hooks for that matter. Most cars have tow points these days, My Tesla has tow hook also however By no means does Tesla say I can flat tow from their (even though Telsa has a built in tow mode for the motors and systems. It is a short term tow point for emergency use or evacuating from a high centered or stuck position and for loading onto a tow truck. If it is you logic as a bumper manufacture that since it has tow hooks so it must be ok to to 1000's of miles at 70 MPH through the deserts and over the mountains then god help us all if that is your reason for manufacturing bumpers for towing ...

So you are saying that Mopar has a OEM tow bar connection that attaches or bolts through the frame-plate if that is so then I digress. Please share with us the Mopar Flat Tow (towbar) part# that would benefit many here assuming it exist? Wonder why they did not tell me about it when I discussed this subject with them?

Rockhard, Can you provide us what authorizations or documentation that suggest either Mopar is OK with towing from the frame-plate and or any engineering that suggest the frame plate is more than satisfactory for flat towing the weights of the Wranglers. And then what are those official Rock Hard tow limits.

One final question for Rock Hard: are you suggesting that towing from the Frame Plate is equally as safe as towing from the frame (assuming all tow connections are equal). This is not a gotcha question but I think it is a question many here would like to understand better.
 
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zb39

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Mopar doesn't recommend putting a truck camper in the back of all of there trucks either. I have owned 3 3500's and 2 2500's and all had that advice in writing when I bought the truck. Yet I and many others have zero issues with it. Maybe thats the same guy you talked to at Mopar..
 

Jondrew

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I had posted earlier I wouldn't respond further since I felt we'd made our point to you, but this is where you are simply misinformed.

Look in that same photo. See those red tow hooks? Fully capable of supporting the weight of the vehicle from the frame horn, and furnished by MOPAR. Now look at every single winch plate on the market, including MOPAR's. Again, reliant on the frame horns.

We then must agree MOPAR trusts the frame horns to support weight of the entire vehicle.
Stick a fork in it friend. He’s a victim of confirmation bias. I wish my wife liked the looks of your patriot bumper. That would be my winch/tow choice. But we’re sticking OEM with the Maximus tow loops.
 

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lightsout

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Stick a fork in it friend. He’s a victim of confirmation bias. I wish my wife liked the looks of your patriot bumper. That would be my winch/tow choice. But we’re sticking OEM with the Maximus tow loops.
Maximus another marvel of engineering, considering the safety cable connects to the same part as the tow bar does, what were they thinking? While you could devise a seperated safety cable connection to the frame you would likely have to eliminate the plastic cover and you really do not want your cable running too far under the rig.
 

Jondrew

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Maximus another marvel of engineering, considering the safety cable connects to the same part as the tow bar does, what were they thinking? While you could devise a seperated safety cable connection to the frame you would likely have to eliminate the plastic cover and you really do not want your cable running too far under the rig.
Played you like a piano
 

Frostbit

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Mopar doesn't recommend putting a truck camper in the back of all of there trucks either. I have owned 3 3500's and 2 2500's and all had that advice in writing when I bought the truck. Yet I and many others have zero issues with it. Maybe thats the same guy you talked to at Mopar..

Too Funny!!

I have a heavy Bigfoot truck camper in the back of my Dodge Cummins Dually. It is just below GVWR and will be the rig I will tow my future diesel wrangler with a Rockhard bumper. I guess I'm going to do everything wrong. :LOL:

nkIRtW9h.jpg
 

zb39

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Too Funny!!

I have a heavy Bigfoot truck camper in the back of my Dodge Cummins Dually. It is just below GVWR and will be the rig I will tow my future diesel wrangler with a Rockhard bumper. I guess I'm going to do everything wrong. :LOL:

nkIRtW9h.jpg
Heres some pics of mine. Sometimes I tow a trailer.
IMG_0424.jpg
IMG_0427.jpg
IMG_0467.jpg


IMG_0464.jpg
 

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roaniecowpony

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Well, that was an energetic discussion. :facepalm:

After examining the pics of the two popular methods, I've decided to tow with the Rock Hard bumper. While the arguments against towing off the front frame bumper attach plates has some points, the re-inforcement provided from the winch plate and factory doublers is substantial.

Not intent on throwing stones at those that chose the Blue Ox frame baseplate, but it isn't without its weakness either. It has two flat plates extended out from the frame. Lateral towing loads put those in bending. It would be more impressive if those were flanged, rather than a simple (and cheaper) flat plate. If I were to guess at a fatigue failure on the plate it would be back near the lower bolt, eminating from the bolt hole.

If you think one of these approaches to attaching is somehow really weak, take a look at your towbar. The Blue Ox towbars have a simple piece of flat stock folded in a U shape with a hole thru it as the clevis to attach the ends.

Each approach has a weakness. I choose to go with one I'm comfortable with.

I borrowed Mrjimmystewart's pics for illustration.

OEM bumper works very well with Blue ox baseplate and Rusty's winch plate. heres pics before I put the stock steel bumper back on.

IMG_3394.jpg


IMG_3395.jpg
 

RCH

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I am just at the ending point of the tow bar package installation on my 2018 JL 2.0 2 door Rubi.

I admit that in the end, I chickened out and went with the blue ox tow plate rather than the much more attractive option, the RH Aluminum Bumper. I am 68 and it is what it is for right now. I have never towed before and my "RV Shop" guys are all Blue Ox veterans. I went with the Patriot 2 braking system because the newer one was not available two months ago.

I had the MOPAR wiring harness installed by the dealer and that kit does not put 14 volts from the alternator back into the Jeep Battery and I could never find out why. I called MOPAR factory and got a tech on line. His answer (I swear to this) was that he didn't know but his opinion was that Jeeps shouldn't be towed anyway. This was a question about the MOPAR JEEP RV TOW HARNESS. My final solution was the RVI charger package.

The installer tapped it into the Harness A below the fuse box (toward the RV). I went with the RVI harness because the diode will prevent feedback from the 12 volt Jeep battery into the A Harness and then B and C harness. This falls under my "first do no harm" concept of Jeep Mods.

I can't get a wiring diagram from MOPAR either. When I asked the service tech about a schematic showing the Tow Harness interface, I was told to go on line and buy a JEEP Shop Manual. Again not very helpful.

My final package, ASCENT Aluminum 7500 lbs bars, the Blue Ox tow Plate, the Patriot 2 braking system, the Mopar wiring harness, and the RVI battery charger.

I will hook everything up and tow around the block a couple of times to ensure it works and that I am not hitting stuff. My first real tow will be 980 miles at the end of this month. I would like it to go "as planned", but, we shall see.

v/r rch
 
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It is unfortunate that misinformation scared you toward a BlueOx base plate on the assumption that it is safer - it's not.

Our last towed car had a BlueOx and when we had a small accident from a person running a stop sign, we did a minor $800 dollars damage to the passenger door of the other car and our Blue Ox was damaged and required replacement. During this exercise, we also found that the base plate attachment bolts had become loose. The dealer who did the install (recommended by Blue Ox) did not Locktite the bolts. Their and BlueOx's comment was, you should check the bolts annually. This was fine in concept but on that car, checking those bolts required disassembling much of the car's front, a 2-hour job. At least it will be easier for you to access and retorque the bolts on a Wrangler.
 

roaniecowpony

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I am thinking that I'll tow very infrequently. So, I'm considering just doing magnetic lights, portable brake unit, and external wiring. Does that make sense?
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