Flat-tow Set-up

[Frostbit]

some people need to learn to read or comprehend here, again it is not be the Bumper that is the issue it is not the Bumper that could fail, it is not even the tow bar attachment plate that the tow bar connects to that is through bolted. The issue is the Jeeps frame and Frame/Bumper plate is not designed for towing which is why Jeep and other (MOST) bumper manufactures strongly supports this position of not bumper towing.

The second part of your question is just stupid in that would suggest that every aftermarket part would be problematic. Jeep makes their own Lift kit that is aftermarket it would be very hard for them to say you can only use their kit and not other engineered kits that keep the jeep withing spec. However there has been discussion on the forum regarding Mopar voiding warranty if you do install a non Mopar lift and had a warranty claim is the result of such lift.

This is a liabalistic (is that a word) world and for anyone to go against the infatic recommendation of a OEM manufacture is pure ignorance these days. That is like someone in Hawaii who has never been to Texas trying to tell the Border patrol what they need in Texas...

Look to each their own this is a thread about flat towing, this is relevent discussion and for those to suggest that others should ignore Mopars position is absurd. I am just passing on what I have been told or learned about the subject. Folks can use or ignore this information as they wish

Insults!! The mark of a lost debate.

Cheers
Jim

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[RCH]

My opinion is there are really two choices. The Mopar one (that you’ve referenced) and the CoolTech option. Do a search on the forum for various threads on both. If I recall, the Mopar parts alone are like $360, so they are charging maybe 2 hrs install? That’s really not too bad considering. I’d do it myself, but since I dont have unlimited time on my hands (plus my son is a service writer at a Jeep dealership) I may opt for that route.

The CoolTech is supposedly easier to install (again, see the threads because I know there was quite a bit of back and forth about how easy it is to install). It also gives you a switch to select between normal driving and towing mode. I think the Mopar option automatically detects when you’re connected to your RV, so there is no switch involved (I like that). Both systems do not include isolation diodes to the tail lights, so there is no possibility of backfeeding and hurting your electrical system.

What about a towed braking system or a vehicle charge line? Have you looked into your choices for those?

Jondrew et al: I have selected the Blue Ox patriot 2 brake system and the blue ox Ascent 7500 lb aluminum Tow Bars.

I am having the MOPAR Tow Vehicle Wiring Harness - 82215382AB installed by my Jeep Dealer next week. I am still not sure exactly how the MOPAR harness is going to interface with the Patriot 2 braking system, but, we shall see.

Mopar and Jeep have blessed this harness for my VIN (JL RUBI 2.0 Turbo). I don't want any warranty issues if the 100 plus computers start spitting at each other.

I am going to go with the RH FULL WIDTH Aluminum Bumper with the RH Blue Ox adaptors in the lowered winch version.

A lot of money is being spent. I hope it all comes together. I am taking a lot of guidance from the folks on this thread and in the JL Wranler Forum.

Thanks to all that make this forum great. v/r rch

 

[Jondrew]

Jondrew et al: I have selected the Blue Ox patriot 2 brake system and the blue ox Ascent 7500 lb aluminum Tow Bars.

I am having the MOPAR Tow Vehicle Wiring Harness - 82215382AB installed by my Jeep Dealer next week. I am still not sure exactly how the MOPAR harness is going to interface with the Patriot 2 braking system, but, we shall see.

Mopar and Jeep have blessed this harness for my VIN (JL RUBI 2.0 Turbo). I don't want any warranty issues if the 100 plus computers start spitting at each other.

I am going to go with the RH FULL WIDTH Aluminum Bumper with the RH Blue Ox adaptors in the lowered winch version.

A lot of money is being spent. I hope it all comes together. I am taking a lot of guidance from the folks on this thread and in the JL Wranler Forum.

Thanks to all that make this forum great. v/r rch

Have you bought the Patriot braking system yet? If not, I’d strongly advice you check out the RVI III system. Its small, easy to set up and works well. You’ll need an always on 12V source to power it, and you should get a battery charge line from your coach to the jeep. RVI makes a nice charger too (like a dummy, I forgot to take my old one out of my CRV when I traded it in.

Yes, a lot of money will be spent. You’re playing with Jeeps and RVs. Now all you need is a boat.

 

[Prestige Billet]

I have flat towed from a bumper ( Poison Spyder) on my JK with great results. I Just ordered a JL and will also bumper tow. My question is regarding the thin base plate on the Jeep frame. Can it be re-enforced? Any way to add material ( backing plate) to make it stronger? As I said my JL is on order so I havent had a chance to inspect yet.

Also the RVI brake system is very good, Patriot system has a lot of complaints
Thanks

 

[Jondrew]

I have flat towed from a bumper ( Poison Spyder) on my JK with great results. I Just ordered a JL and will also bumper tow. My question is regarding the thin base plate on the Jeep frame. Can it be re-enforced? Any way to add material ( backing plate) to make it stronger? As I said my JL is on order so I havent had a chance to inspect yet.

Also the RVI brake system is very good, Patriot system has a lot of complaints
Thanks

Just spitballing here, but I’d imagine most flat tow failures would be from improper installation, corrosion, severe abuse and improper usage. The blueox setup is pretty stout. I installed one on my honda CRV. The bolts would have to fail in both tension and shear in order to break (assuming they are tightened correctly). Or the frame would have to fail somehow. Also, there is a secondary steel safety cable on each side that ties the plate to the frame. And yet these systems have apparently failed for some reason or other. I would have to guess that if the owners had inspected the tow plates, they would have seen the impending failure way before there was a problem. I think the same applies to bumper type towing. I’m probably going to go with the Maximus 3 tow points. They bolt to the frame and poke thru either the bumper or skid plate (not exactly shure, but one of them need holes cut in them. They look pretty solid and I think they also act as additional recovery points. The only think I don’t like about them is both the towbar and safety chains are attached to the Maximus 3. So if one tore off somehow, you’d lose the towbar connection and the safety chain. I’d prefer to hook my safety chains to a seperate frame mounts connection point.

 

[Mrjimmystewart]

OEM bumper works very well with Blue ox baseplate and Rusty's winch plate. heres pics before I put the stock steel bumper back on.

 

[lightsout]

I have flat towed from a bumper ( Poison Spyder) on my JK with great results. I Just ordered a JL and will also bumper tow. My question is regarding the thin base plate on the Jeep frame. Can it be re-enforced? Any way to add material ( backing plate) to make it stronger? As I said my JL is on order so I havent had a chance to inspect yet.

Also the RVI brake system is very good, Patriot system has a lot of complaints
Thanks

The issue is the bumper frame plate is welded to the end of the Tubed frame that is the weak link (the fact it is welded and thin sheet metal) I cannot imagine anyway to beef that up. Whereas base plates bolt directly to the side of the frame in multiple locations with redundant connections (they even include a safety cable just for the base-plate connection, that speaks volumes regarding the safety concerns for flat towing a 5K lb vehicle. Multiple bolts would have to fail compared to a single weld on the bumper towed setup. Just look at the pictures above, you will see for yourself when you remove the bumper.

 

[RCH]

The issue is the bumper frame plate is welded to the end of the Tubed frame that is the weak link (the fact it is welded and thin sheet metal) I cannot imagine anyway to beef that up. Whereas base plates bolt directly to the side of the frame in multiple locations with redundant connections (they even include a safety cable just for the base-plate connection, that speaks volumes regarding the safety concerns for flat towing a 5K lb vehicle. Multiple bolts would have to fail compared to a single weld on the bumper towed setup. Just look at the pictures above, you will see for yourself when you remove the bumper.

lightsout, I went out to look at the connection between the bumper mounting plate and the frame on my 2018 JL Rubi with a factory installed steel bumper option (with front skid plate).

Besides the weld on the frame end to the bracket, my JL appears to have an L bracket bolted to each side of the frame and through bolted to the bumper bracket and bumper. There are a total of 4 L brackets reinforcing the welded bumper mount to frame connection on my jeep. They are sandwiched to the bumper and bracket on each side of each frame member by the two "through bumper" bolts on each side of the bumper mounting bracket and each L bracket is bolted to the side of the frame by a single bolt and welded nut instalation. These L brackets reinforce the bumper to frame connection by supplementing the welded bumper bracket connection.with steel bolted to the frame and the bumper mounted bracket.

I see no mention of these brackets in your discussions of the JL Wrangler Bumper to Frame connection deficiencies. Are these frame mounted brackets just on my factory installed steel bumper installation, or on all the JL.s?

v/r rch

 

[Prestige Billet]

RCH... Is there any way you can post a pic of the L brackets you are referring to?

 

[Bilymac]

lightsout, I went out to look at the connection between the bumper mounting plate and the frame on my 2018 JL Rubi with a factory installed steel bumper option (with front skid plate).

Besides the weld on the frame end to the bracket, my JL appears to have an L bracket bolted to each side of the frame and through bolted to the bumper bracket and bumper. There are a total of 4 L brackets reinforcing the welded bumper mount to frame connection on my jeep. They are sandwiched to the bumper and bracket on each side of each frame member by the two "through bumper" bolts on each side of the bumper mounting bracket and each L bracket is bolted to the side of the frame by a single bolt and welded nut instalation. These L brackets reinforce the bumper to frame connection by supplementing the welded bumper bracket connection.with steel bolted to the frame and the bumper mounted bracket.

I see no mention of these brackets in your discussions of the JL Wrangler Bumper to Frame connection deficiencies. Are these frame mounted brackets just on my factory installed steel bumper installation, or on all the JL.s?

v/r rch

These "L" brackets are on the JL's with plastic bumpers also. Speaking from experience.

Bill

 

[zb39]

RCH... Is there any way you can post a pic of the L brackets you are referring to?

I posted pics of these brackets earlier in this thread. There are 2 per side and are thru the frame bolted. My JLR came with plastic front bumper. RH set up is AWESOME!

 

[lightsout]

I posted pics of these brackets earlier in this thread. There are 2 per side and are thru the frame bolted. My JLR came with plastic front bumper. RH set up is AWESOME!

Here they are this thin sheet-metal 1 bolt (slotted) bracket and a 1" weld at top and 1" weld at bottom is all that holds the frame and bumper connection. I cannot imagine trusting this to tow 5000lbs

 

[Frostbit]

Here they are this thin sheet-metal 1 bolt (slotted) bracket and a 1" weld at top and 1" weld at bottom is all that holds the frame and bumper connection. I cannot imagine trusting this to tow 5000lbs

Yet you trust an after market piece of equipment (blueox baseplate) that has multiple documented failures because "there are millions in use" you say. Your logic is suspect.

 

[lightsout]

Considering Blue OX makes plates for most towable cars I would expect that has been accidents however what was the cause, did owners regularly inspect, were the issues driving conditions ect, was it the plate or the tow bar connections? Since Frostbit has all the answers how many failures are there of the Blue OX plat on JL Wranglers? or for than matter JK's. The issues discussed is the strength of the bumper connection to support towing which Mopar says NO.

All I have suggested is anyone considering towing via the bumper to contact Mopar themselves and then make that decision.

 

[Frostbit]

Considering Blue OX makes plates for most towable cars I would expect that has been accidents however what was the cause, did owners regularly inspect, were the issues driving conditions ect, was it the plate or the tow bar connections? Since Frostbit has all the answers how many failures are there of the Blue OX plat on JL Wranglers? or for than matter JK's. The issues discussed is the strength of the bumper connection to support towing which Mopar says NO.

All I have suggested is anyone considering towing via the bumper to contact Mopar themselves and then make that decision.

I don't, nor have I suggested, I 'have all the answers". But I have asked on this and practically every other thread, as well as a standard google search for any examples of the Rockford Bumper failing as a flat tow option. Now I did give links to documented Blueox failures.

Lightout, do you have any documented examples of a Rockhard or LOD bumper failure during flat tow use?

The Rockhard representative that posts on this forum has stated there have been no documented failures. He certainly could be lying. I wouldn't know.

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