Flat-tow Set-up

[Jondrew]

For what it's worth, I have a Rubi with stock tires / rims and it is a little over 19" from ground up to the center of the Maximus tow loop hole. Attached (hopefully) is a quick pic of my front bumper setup. I centered the 6-pin and breakaway connections between the loops. And yes, I need to plasti-dip the 6-pin black.

No, thats perfect! Trying to remember what the connect point height was on my CRV. I have a Class A DP. Do you use a drop hitch?
I think this is the way I’m going to go.

Sponsored

 

[Jondrew]

Has anyone used the MOPAR 2018 Jeep Wrangler JL Accessories - Tow Vehicle Wiring Harness - 82215382AB? It is about $750 installed.

Here is the blurb from the MOPAR sight: "Tow Vehicle Wiring Harness enables towing a vehicle behind a truck or an RV. Harness allows for brake, turn signal and running light operation. Fits Jeep Wrangler (JL). This wiring harness connects the vehicle to the towing vehicles 7 way trailer connector. Includes a under hood wiring disconnect and is engineered to work with your vehicle's body computer and operates the taillights."

The price installed is from my Jeep Dealership.

Again, looking for opinions or experience.

v/r rch

My opinion is there are really two choices. The Mopar one (that you’ve referenced) and the CoolTech option. Do a search on the forum for various threads on both. If I recall, the Mopar parts alone are like $360, so they are charging maybe 2 hrs install? That’s really not too bad considering. I’d do it myself, but since I dont have unlimited time on my hands (plus my son is a service writer at a Jeep dealership) I may opt for that route.

The CoolTech is supposedly easier to install (again, see the threads because I know there was quite a bit of back and forth about how easy it is to install). It also gives you a switch to select between normal driving and towing mode. I think the Mopar option automatically detects when you’re connected to your RV, so there is no switch involved (I like that). Both systems do not include isolation diodes to the tail lights, so there is no possibility of backfeeding and hurting your electrical system.

What about a towed braking system or a vehicle charge line? Have you looked into your choices for those?

 

[MacJack]

For what it's worth, I have a Rubi with stock tires / rims and it is a little over 19" from ground up to the center of the Maximus tow loop hole. Attached (hopefully) is a quick pic of my front bumper setup. I centered the 6-pin and breakaway connections between the loops. And yes, I need to plasti-dip the 6-pin black.

Al, looks nice... Maxium is on my list... are you using an Blue Ox and what part and where did you get to attach to Jeep to Blue Ox. Tell me about your wiring as well.

 

[Jimac]

Al, looks nice... Maxium is on my list... are you using an Blue Ox and what part and where did you get to attach to Jeep to Blue Ox. Tell me about your wiring as well.

This is what BlueOx system complete with 7pin to 4pin wiring harness including diodes

 

[Jondrew]

This is what BlueOx system complete with 7pin to 4pin wiring harness including diodes

Yea. Going to be my set up

 

[jeepixel]

Al, looks nice... Maxium is on my list... are you using an Blue Ox and what part and where did you get to attach to Jeep to Blue Ox. Tell me about your wiring as well.

My setup. . . very similar to a couple other forum member's setup (thank y'all!) and thought it fit my needs the best. Blue Ox Ascent tow bar with safety cables and swapped out the adapters (the piece that connects to the tow loops or tow bar) to the Maximus version for Blue Ox, Cooltech wiring harness and I added the switch cover per forum post idea, RVi Brake 3, Rvi battery charger (keeps the Jeep battery topped off when towing), RVi 12v outlet (constant power under the dash to plug in the brake gizmo), the Maximus-3 tow loops, and a couple D-rings for the loops / safety cables. A couple hiccups. . . surprised to discover the safety cables don't fit the D-ring shackles - ug. Oddly. . . as others have noted the Maximus tow adapters are tight tight tight on the Maximus tow loops.

 

[lightsout]

We’re still trying to decide if we are going to keep our coach. I’ve put an OEM bumper on with a winch because my wife likes the look better than the RH or LOD alternatives. If we do go with a tow setup it’ll probably be a BlueOx plate even though I don’t care for that look and don’t like the ground interference potential of the connect points.

I originally ordered the LOD bumper, and shortly after I was advised not to bumper tow from Etrailer, they suggested I call Mopar, so 1st I contacted the dealer who also did not endorse bumper towing however they gave me a corp Phone # to get the official policy and after about an hour of holds and transfers I finally got to speak to a person who said that Mopar does not recommend or endorse Bumper towing as the bumper/frame plate is not designed for that kind of stress. I then contacted LOD and canceled the order.

I ended up installing the Blue OX towplate and in the end I am satisfied however I would have preferred the look of the bumper tow setup, it turns out that the Tow plate is the same height (1/2" +/-) compared to the LOD bumper as the LOD Bumper is tall and has a lot of drop to it below the tow connection, so there is NO improvement in clearance with at least Blue OX plate vs LOD bumper towing setup.

I do think some missed the point it is not weather the bumper can handle it is if the frame and bumper connection can since the Bumper to frame connection is just a welded thin metal plate on the end of the frame, which would be hard to inspect welds without removing the bumper every-time. It is one thing to push against the frame and plate it is another to be pulling on just that plate

 

[Hgrace]

Look, as you can see in the picture above the tow bar connection is only supported by 2 bolts, those are only attached to the lower side of the JL bumper frame connection with will produce un-even stress on the bumper frame plate.

When I discussed this with Mopar while they do not endorse ANY bumper tow connections they really frowned on those that connection like the above as it is putting uneven stress on the bumper frame base plate which is a thin light weight sheet metal welded to the end of the frame.

Per Mopar "Jeep does not recommend towing the Wrangler with any bumper because it was not designed to pull the weight of the vehicle"

It is not so much about the Bumper as it is the Bumper connection and wrangler frame. If you do tow via the bumper at least get something that connects to all 4 Points of the Bumper Frame plate...

It makes me wonder if these small fabrication shops like RH and LOD have robust Liability insurance that would cover a catastrophic failure for a feature that the actual car manufactures frowns on and does not authorize or endorse for the above reason...

To each their own, however for me safety 1st................

Oh for those that say they have been towing for 1000's of miles without incident, I doubt actual safety statistic is based on a few hundred thousand miles testing. I would assume though that the bumper manufactures have had documented lab testing to the equivalent of 100's of thousands of stops (including hard stops) and starts as well as turns in both directions to validate their claims of safety... If so this would be valuable marketing info to shut up naysayers like myself.

Also what is often overlooked is weight, just had my Sahara weighed after adding KO 35's Fuel Aluminum wheels, Aluminum Bumper, winch, Tow plate. With full fuel I was 4900lbs, Many would say perfect I am under the 5000lb which is where most if not all gas Class A and Class C motorhome receivers are rated for. It is important to understand that rating means nothing if your RV is at or near max gross vehicle weight many Class A's for example are on the Ford 22,000 GVRW frame and max out with Towing at 26,000lbs. For example we have a 2017 35" Bounder with the 22K frame 26K max so if the RV is loaded with water gas, propane, food and all the camping gear and is at or near the 22K (which is easy to do) you can now only tow 4K. When we tow any distance we have 1/4 tank water or less as well as Black and Grey tanks always empty. My point is load your RV up and have it weighed before you tow your Wrangler.

Also Note Most Rubicons especially with 37's will likely exceed the 5k weight limit. Whereas Diesel pushers will likely have it made, although we looked at several 35' and under Diesel pushers and most were under powered for towing.

You really have a problem here don't you. Maybe you should just stay home. The Grade 8 bolts used have a rating of 150,000 lbs according to engineering handbooks. There are 4 and there are backing plates behind.
These vehicles get pulled drug an hung by shackles all the time.
Did you read the part about the Blue Ox baseplate falling apart?

 

[lightsout]

You really have a problem here don't you. Maybe you should just stay home. The Grade 8 bolts used have a rating of 150,000 lbs according to engineering handbooks. There are 4 and there are backing plates behind.
These vehicles get pulled drug an hung by shackles all the time.
Did you read the part about the Blue Ox base plate falling apart?

Maybe you should pay attention, FACT the LOD and RH Bumper the tow connection is only attached by TWO bolts to the lower half of the sheet metal frame plate in no way is the tow bar even attached to the bumper just the optional two bolt attachment, it has NOTHING to even do with the bumper expect these two bumper manufactures sell the tow attachment. It is not the bolts or the bumper that is the issue it is the welded thin sheet metal frame end plate, and considering that the two bolts are only on the bottom two frame-plate holes puts uneven push/pull stress on the frame-plate. As much criticism on this forum about poor welding by Mopar one might think that trusting the welded sheet metal bumper frame plate would be a stretch...

Where is that backing plate as the frame plate is only slightly larger than the Frame the only backing plate would be the washer, Again Bolts can fail however it is not the bolt that is the weak link it is the Frame Plate that is WELDED to the frame tube. Still a backing plate would provide benefit to the welds of the frame-plate

Look anything can fail however there is redundancy in the Blue Ox Tow Plate in addition the safety cable attached to ta seperate location than the tow bar, the provision for the safety cable on the bumpers is on the bumper. At Least with Blue OX there are millions and millions of miles tested as well backed by a mainstream towing equipment specialty company. I wold also assume the failure of the Blue Ox was the tow plate itself not the connection point to the car which is the issue with the bumper connection.

When I was looking for towable bumpers I contacted 7-8 of the manufactures all by RH and LOD said now way they would endorse towing via their bumpers (call for yourself) they all said it was not the issue of the bumper but the connection to the Frame plate.

My current bumper has a eye plate that bolts through all 4 frame plate wholes still the manufacture says no way, they will not endorse. Again simply due to the frame-plate connection to the frame.

From what I can tell LOD and RH make great bumpers, I think they are miss guided and setting them selves up for potential liabilities seeing that the lion share of the bumper industry as well as Mopar say do not tow from the bumper or bumper frame connection

Here is the Blue Ox Plate you can see connected directly to the frame rails at 2 points was well as a third lower connection, the safety cable and tow bar connections are two separate pieces welded together so if the tow bar part of the plate failed it would not impact the safety cable connection. Is this 100% fail proof, nothing is however it takes the Mopar frame plate issues out of the equasion. Also notice the Blue Ox Plate also has a cable that goes around the frame in the event the plate bolts was to fail.

 

[Jondrew]

Geeze guys chill. Its not like we’re arguing Rubicon vs Moab

 

[ROCK HARD 4X4]

We know we'll never get lightsout on our side. That's actually totally fair, his method of towing is the system he has experience with. When your part works, your part works, and sometimes you question why anyone else would go a different route. No harm, no foul, he's happy and that's what matters.

I guess I should point out however that our design and concept has been proven by more than just our customers. Blue Ox offers the same concept we've offered and proven for decades. These universal brackets are offered by Blue Ox for folks wanting a custom set up to tow from. The downside of these is they aren't Jeep frame horn pattered, but ours our. Same number of bolts - 2, etc. We use 1/2" thick steel on the backing plates. Our tabs are 3/8" thick steel.

Lightsout, we hope you can see that your way is one way, not the only way. We've never had a single towing failure in the decades we've been towing. Whether privately for our own vehicles or what we've offered to the public.

We wouldn't offer it if we didn't trust it.

http://www.blueox.com/towing-accessories/bx88230/

 

[lightsout]

RH, my point or issue is simple if the engineers at Mopar say the Jeep frame or Bumper frame-plate is not designed to tow and they say NOT to tow from that location, in fact the majority of the bumper manufactures agree that you should not tow from the bumper, that should be the defining factor, regardless of tow bar connection to the frame-plate. Again you make great bumpers and other parts, but at some point you should comply to Mopars claims, while a fail may never happen with your system it only takes one and now your company will be negligent with huge potential liabilities for ignoring Mopars advice.

on a side note: Considering that Wranglers with Fuel and minor mods is pushing the 5000K limit and many will exceed that have additional mods or larger wheels and tires only compounds the issues (especially Rubicons, it was this reason I did not buy a Rubi)). Not to mention most Gas Motorhomes while they have a 5K rating that 5000lb is only assuming the Motorhome is dry or mostly dry. there is a lot to consider when flat towing, everyone towing needs to know what the wet and loaded weight of the RV is. My 2017 36' Fleetwood Bounder of the ford F53 22K chasis in order for me to tow 5K lbs withing the tow limits I have travel with black and grey tanks empty and water less than 1/2 other wise my GVRW weight is to high to tow my 4900lb Sahara. With water, and grey and Black full or near full loaded I can only tow 3500-4000lb and be within in tow spec. This is consistent with most gasser motorhomes.

With Wranglers especially Rubicons, say with 37's steel bumper and winch with Fuel they are likely way over 5000lbs, I am curious what is the official tow limit of the Rock Hard or LOD tow connection?

For 12 years I owned boat dealerships, and dealt with towing limits and liability's of such on a daily basis. When I purchased my Wrangler its use is 90% for towing, in fact I have had it since Sept and have put only 400 miles on it, we will start towing in April. So when I purchased the Jeep every decision was based on towing which is why I went to the extremes to qualify what has been discussed here. Look being in a business where vehicles are being towed I had lost count of the failures and accidents I had seen or heard over the years of regarding tow equipment failure. This just happens to be a subject I am passionate about and take seriously. So If the Jeep manufacture (Mopar) says DO NOT TOW from the Bumper connection, I take that seriously. I find it fascinating that many here discount their warning.

Rock Hard I do not think there are really sides to this issue, it should only be Mopars side since they are the one that establish and are liable for the limitations.

 

[ROCK HARD 4X4]

Here's our bottom line in this discussion with lightsout:

Our system is proven. The same method we use is offered by Blue Ox, and MOPAR has no concerns with the strength of their frame horns, where do their bumpers, tow hooks, and winch plates mount? The same frame attachment points where all MOPAR and aftermarket Wrangler bumpers, tow hooks, winch plates, and our tow bar brackets attach.

If lightsout or any other members have any further questions or comments along lightsouts comments, we invite you to call us at 844/762-5427, email us at [email protected], or send us a Private Message on this forum.

We're happy to answer any other questions in this thread.

 

[Frostbit]

RH, my point or issue is simple if the engineers at Mopar say the Jeep frame or Bumper frame-plate is not designed to tow and they say NOT to tow from that location, in fact the majority of the bumper manufactures agree that you should not tow from the bumper, that should be the defining factor, regardless of tow bar connection to the frame-plate. Again you make great bumpers and other parts, but at some point you should comply to Mopars claims, while a fail may never happen with your system it only takes one and now your company will be negligent with huge potential liabilities for ignoring Mopars advice.

on a side note: Considering that Wranglers with Fuel and minor mods is pushing the 5000K limit and many will exceed that have additional mods or larger wheels and tires only compounds the issues (especially Rubicons, it was this reason I did not buy a Rubi)). Not to mention most Gas Motorhomes while they have a 5K rating that 5000lb is only assuming the Motorhome is dry or mostly dry. there is a lot to consider when flat towing, everyone towing needs to know what the wet and loaded weight of the RV is. My 2017 36' Fleetwood Bounder of the ford F53 22K chasis in order for me to tow 5K lbs withing the tow limits I have travel with black and grey tanks empty and water less than 1/2 other wise my GVRW weight is to high to tow my 4900lb Sahara. With water, and grey and Black full or near full loaded I can only tow 3500-4000lb and be within in tow spec. This is consistent with most gasser motorhomes.

With Wranglers especially Rubicons, say with 37's steel bumper and winch with Fuel they are likely way over 5000lbs, I am curious what is the official tow limit of the Rock Hard or LOD tow connection?

For 12 years I owned boat dealerships, and dealt with towing limits and liability's of such on a daily basis. When I purchased my Wrangler its use is 90% for towing, in fact I have had it since Sept and have put only 400 miles on it, we will start towing in April. So when I purchased the Jeep every decision was based on towing which is why I went to the extremes to qualify what has been discussed here. Look being in a business where vehicles are being towed I had lost count of the failures and accidents I had seen or heard over the years of regarding tow equipment failure. This just happens to be a subject I am passionate about and take seriously. So If the Jeep manufacture (Mopar) says DO NOT TOW from the Bumper connection, I take that seriously. I find it fascinating that many here discount their warning.

Rock Hard I do not think there are really sides to this issue, it should only be Mopars side since they are the one that establish and are liable for the limitations.

Still waiting for any actual example of the Rockhard bumper failure while towing.

Anyone?

Lightsout, when you had the Mopar rep on the phone I'm curious if you asked him if Jeep approves lift kits from Metalcloak, etc.? If the answer is no then I'd be suspicious that Mopar is simply protecting their market share or removing themselves from any liability claims (ass covering).

Cheers
Jim

 

[lightsout]

Still waiting for any actual example of the Rockhard bumper failure while towing.

Anyone?

Lightsout, when you had the Mopar rep on the phone I'm curious if you asked him if Jeep approves lift kits from Metalcloak, etc.? If the answer is no then I'd be suspicious that Mopar is simply protecting their market share or removing themselves from any liability claims (ass covering).

Cheers
Jim

some people need to learn to read or comprehend here, again it is not be the Bumper that is the issue it is not the Bumper that could fail, it is not even the tow bar attachment plate that the tow bar connects to that is through bolted. The issue is the Jeeps frame and Frame/Bumper plate is not designed for towing which is why Jeep and other (MOST) bumper manufactures strongly supports this position of not bumper towing.

The second part of your question is just stupid in that would suggest that every aftermarket part would be problematic. Jeep makes their own Lift kit that is aftermarket it would be very hard for them to say you can only use their kit and not other engineered kits that keep the jeep withing spec. However there has been discussion on the forum regarding Mopar voiding warranty if you do install a non Mopar lift and had a warranty claim is the result of such lift.

This is a liabalistic (is that a word) world and for anyone to go against the infatic recommendation of a OEM manufacture is pure ignorance these days. That is like someone in Hawaii who has never been to Texas trying to tell the Border patrol what they need in Texas...

Look to each their own this is a thread about flat towing, this is relevent discussion and for those to suggest that others should ignore Mopars position is absurd. I am just passing on what I have been told or learned about the subject. Folks can use or ignore this information as they wish

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