Flat-tow Set-up

lightsout

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Well this thread was a huge waste of time.
I'm currently setting up a '19 Rubi to flat tow behind my motorhome, looking for insight into how to make any sense of the directions included with the Mopar wiring harness.

Unfortunately, 80% of this 10 page thread is one asshole beating his chest repeatedly and a half dozen others getting sucked into responding to him.

More like 80% clueless people that think they are invincible and willingly ignore the law, Mopar engineers, and safety of others on the road. They praise their wranglers but trash the Mopar engineers that say do not tow using the bumper plate connection. Then there are those that have no clue to the actual towing capabilities of their gasser MH which is clearly in full display here.



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psdtime

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More like 80% clueless people that think they are invincible and willingly ignore the law, Mopar engineers, and safety of others on the road. They praise their wranglers but trash the Mopar engineers that say do not tow using the bumper plate connection. Then there are those that have no clue to the actual towing capabilities of their gasser MH which is clearly in full display here.
Lightsout, I appreciate you bringing this topic up and whether the frame tie in is needed for flat towing or not is not a debate I wish to entertain. What I would like to ask is that based on whey you stated that the bumper is not a good place to tow from it would also seem to reason that it isn't a good place to use as a recovery point. I haven't yet torn into the front of a JLRU, but I think those fancy red hooks on the front of my Rubicon are attached to frame and not the bumper, which leads me to believe that you are probably correct that we shouldn't expect much from the bumper plate. I will likely be buying the tie ins when I finalize my set up. I'm more concerned about the 5lbs they add then the $100. Do you think that they would work with most bumpers. I really want an aluminum bumper, and LOD doesn't make one. TIA
 

Jmonroe

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Lightsout, I appreciate you bringing this topic up and whether the frame tie in is needed for flat towing or not is not a debate I wish to entertain. What I would like to ask is that based on whey you stated that the bumper is not a good place to tow from it would also seem to reason that it isn't a good place to use as a recovery point. I haven't yet torn into the front of a JLRU, but I think those fancy red hooks on the front of my Rubicon are attached to frame and not the bumper, which leads me to believe that you are probably correct that we shouldn't expect much from the bumper plate. I will likely be buying the tie ins when I finalize my set up. I'm more concerned about the 5lbs they add then the $100. Do you think that they would work with most bumpers. I really want an aluminum bumper, and LOD doesn't make one. TIA
Those red hooks are part of the bumper assembly, at least the steel bumper. They are not directly attached to the frame. When I removed the bumper to install the tow loops they came with it,
 

psdtime

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Those red hooks are part of the bumper assembly, at least the steel bumper. They are not directly attached to the frame. When I removed the bumper to install the tow loops they came with it,
Thanks, I need more education on this.
 

Jmonroe

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Thanks, I need more education on this.
There is an "L" bracket that is captured under the bumper mounting nuts on the outside of the frame rail and has one aditional bolt that clamps that bracket to the frame - total of three nuts/bolts.
 

CoolTech

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Jeep told me directly they did not recommend or endorse towing off the front frame end plate especially with just the lower two bolts. I have it in writing from them...
While that may may be the case, you're simply NOT going to get Jeep to recommend or endorse ANY set-up, regardless of its real or perceived strength. Mind you, it may be possible to get someone from Jeep to SAY anything, but you're simply NEVER going to get a written recommendation of endorsement of any kind - for any set-up. As such, if this is the criteria for selecting a tow bar system, then you're simply not going to get anything that will pass. By the same token, it is completely un-fair to judge/discard Rockhard by this statement.

Next week will be my 40th work anniversary as an aerospace engineer. In looking at the Rockhard design, some (many?) of the negative assertions simply are not true. While the attachment is to the lower two bolts of the frame horns - the strength is coming from all 4 of the attachment points. To wit, if you were to run a stress analysis on that configuration, you would clearly see this point. In terms of strength, the setup would be close to a 4-bolt plate with welded attachment flanges but offset to the bottom rather than centered.

I don't know Rockhard from Adam and don't know if I've ever purchased anything from them but I would have ABSOLUTELY ZERO concerns about towing with their set-up. If you like/prefer another solution that's great but throwing rocks at this proven set-up is both petty and from an engineering perspective, inaccurate.
 

kosinar

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While that may may be the case, you're simply NOT going to get Jeep to recommend or endorse ANY set-up, regardless of its real or perceived strength. Mind you, it may be possible to get someone from Jeep to SAY anything, but you're simply NEVER going to get a written recommendation of endorsement of any kind - for any set-up. As such, if this is the criteria for selecting a tow bar system, then you're simply not going to get anything that will pass. By the same token, it is completely un-fair to judge/discard Rockhard by this statement.

Next week will be my 40th work anniversary as an aerospace engineer. In looking at the Rockhard design, some (many?) of the negative assertions simply are not true. While the attachment is to the lower two bolts of the frame horns - the strength is coming from all 4 of the attachment points. To wit, if you were to run a stress analysis on that configuration, you would clearly see this point. In terms of strength, the setup would be close to a 4-bolt plate with welded attachment flanges but offset to the bottom rather than centered.

I don't know Rockhard from Adam and don't know if I've ever purchased anything from them but I would have ABSOLUTELY ZERO concerns about towing with their set-up. If you like/prefer another solution that's great but throwing rocks at this proven set-up is both petty and from an engineering perspective, inaccurate.
Stop feeding this troll. He is lurking from his basement and jump on any towing post to clutter it with his bs. Check his posts.
 

Frostbit

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While that may may be the case, you're simply NOT going to get Jeep to recommend or endorse ANY set-up, regardless of its real or perceived strength. Mind you, it may be possible to get someone from Jeep to SAY anything, but you're simply NEVER going to get a written recommendation of endorsement of any kind - for any set-up. As such, if this is the criteria for selecting a tow bar system, then you're simply not going to get anything that will pass. By the same token, it is completely un-fair to judge/discard Rockhard by this statement.

Next week will be my 40th work anniversary as an aerospace engineer. In looking at the Rockhard design, some (many?) of the negative assertions simply are not true. While the attachment is to the lower two bolts of the frame horns - the strength is coming from all 4 of the attachment points. To wit, if you were to run a stress analysis on that configuration, you would clearly see this point. In terms of strength, the setup would be close to a 4-bolt plate with welded attachment flanges but offset to the bottom rather than centered.

I don't know Rockhard from Adam and don't know if I've ever purchased anything from them but I would have ABSOLUTELY ZERO concerns about towing with their set-up. If you like/prefer another solution that's great but throwing rocks at this proven set-up is both petty and from an engineering perspective, inaccurate.
KINI loves her Rockhard Aluminum Bumper. Made a 4,000 mile trip through Canada to our home in Alaska without issue.

6945DC38-1E1F-43AA-AA01-B540247C2019.jpeg
3B4630B8-BBA1-4D43-B7D3-63D9043FACBA.jpeg
3FD1BBD2-A1AF-4565-B725-71712B6D3711.jpeg
 

lightsout

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This is quite the think tank. Regardless of what Mopar will or will not say applies the one statement they have made They do not endorse bumper towing and the frame plate was not designed for this.

Lightsout, I appreciate you bringing this topic up and whether the frame tie in is needed for flat towing or not is not a debate I wish to entertain. What I would like to ask is that based on whey you stated that the bumper is not a good place to tow from it would also seem to reason that it isn't a good place to use as a recovery point. I haven't yet torn into the front of a JLRU, but I think those fancy red hooks on the front of my Rubicon are attached to frame and not the bumper, which leads me to believe that you are probably correct that we shouldn't expect much from the bumper plate. I will likely be buying the tie ins when I finalize my set up. I'm more concerned about the 5lbs they add then the $100. Do you think that they would work with most bumpers. I really want an aluminum bumper, and LOD doesn't make one. TIA
The red hooks are only attached to the bumper and designed for emergency short distance towing only (this is direct from Mopar) they too have their limitations. When I set my 2018 JLU up Tie ins were not even an option they did not exist. I contacted the sealer and they went to Corp when I posed the question of flat towing from the bumper. My dealer came back in writing that Mopar was absolute that I should not attempt to flat tow from the bumper frame plates. Those plates are a thin piece of sheet metal, with 4 spot welds and one small light weight brackets that ties to the frame. It is one thing to to do a 1 time emergency pull out of a ditch versus driving with 1000's of stop and go's wearing on the thin frame plate.

I respect Rockhard for developing the Tie in bracket that speaks volumes IMO that is the proper solution to this whole conversation.

Next week will be my 40th work anniversary as an aerospace engineer. In looking at the Rockhard design, some (many?) of the negative assertions simply are not true. While the attachment is to the lower two bolts of the frame horns - the strength is coming from all 4 of the attachment points. To wit, if you were to run a stress analysis on that configuration, you would clearly see this point. In terms of strength, the setup would be close to a 4-bolt plate with welded attachment flanges but offset to the bottom rather than centered.

I don't know Rockhard from Adam and don't know if I've ever purchased anything from them but I would have ABSOLUTELY ZERO concerns about towing with their set-up. If you like/prefer another solution that's great but throwing rocks at this proven set-up is both petty and from an engineering perspective, inaccurate.
From one engineer to another I am sure some Boeing engineers said the same about the MAX. You see there is another MAJOR flaw in the Rockhard bumpers if you do not use the Tie in bracket. the bumper bracket the tow bar attaches to only uses two bolts through the frame plate which will put added pressure on one of the 4 sides of the thin frame plate. This is a significant in-balance and is a wear point.

Look Rock hard makes some great products, however they are a very small fab shop out in the middle of nowhere with clear limited resources from my early conversations with them prior to any tie in brackets at which time they resisted the thought of that. There is no doubt that this thread and public concerns clearly changed their perspective, again which speaks volumes in to the importance of towing safety.

My ONLY issue was Frame plate only flat towing, keep in mind I had my JL long before it existed. The tie in bracket was a game changer.

With that said though it is amazing how many on here ignore safety of those that share the road with them.

Look, I do not kn ow anyone with Covid so dies that mean it does not exists? Because I have a JL in the serial range of bad welds therefore because my JL has good welds the problem does not exists? That seem to be the typical uniformed response.

KINI loves her Rockhard Aluminum Bumper. Made a 4,000 mile trip through Canada to our home in Alaska without issue.
First bumper material construction has no relevance to towing capability unless the tow bar connections are welded (which means it has NO direct frame connection, That is problematic, and frankly not even an option for Aluminum). You can tow with a plastic bumper as long as the tow connection points are attached directly to the frame.

Let me add one more observation: there are countless aftermarket bumpers out there however 95% will not endorse bumper towing even though their bumpers are equal or even more robust than the bumpers that do advertise for towing. the difference is those companies understand the liability and the position of Mopar and are not willing to roll the dice on SAFETY. This writing is on the wall as it does not take but a few calls to those other manufactures or read thier disclosures to figure this out...

Again it is quite the think tank here...
 

zb39

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I understand you hate Rockhard because they wanted to charge you for something you didn't want to pay. But give it up already, I actually think your advertising for them at this rate. I have towed over 200,000 miles over the last 30 years. 4 diff toads. Zero issues, My Rockhard just came back from another trip, zero issues, Thank you Rockhard for building a great product!!!
 

lightsout

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I understand you hate Rockhard because they wanted to charge you for something you didn't want to pay. But give it up already, I actually think your advertising for them at this rate. I have towed over 200,000 miles over the last 30 years. 4 diff toads. Zero issues, My Rockhard just came back from another trip, zero issues, Thank you Rockhard for building a great product!!!
What did Rock hard try to charge me for?

So 200K miles makes you a towing wizard and that qualifies you to denounce the disclosures of the Mopars engineers? Mopar should fire them all and hire you to engineer and certify all their components.

I think Rockhard makes a great bumper and I encourage all to consider purchasing from them. But they are a very small fab shop that is taking incredible risk going against the recommendation of the OEM vehicle manufacture. They are the exception not the rule as 95% of all the other bumper manufactures warn against towing from their bumpers, HMM WONDER WHY? is it because Mopor says Don't?

Now if you want to tow I do recommend LOD since they offer the Frame Tie in bracket or at the very least buy the LOD bracket for your Rockhard or other bumper.

My only observation is all the idiots towing from the bumper/frame plate with No direct frame connection putting everyone at risk that is sharing the road. Sounds like you are in that category as well.

But if you (the self appointed towing Towing authority (look I am only mirroring Mopars position) say it is OK it must be right? Especially since you claim to have been towing with Rockhard bumpers for 30 years long before Rockhard even existed.

I guess since my JL never had the dreaded death wobble that it must not exist? That is how imbesilic your experience claim is. laughable in fact
 

psdtime

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Another Rock Hard Patriot aluminum bumper here. A Blue Ox tow system and cool Tech wiring harness.
JL Rock Hard bumper.jpg
I'm basically copying your set-up. Do you like having your electrical plug mounted where you placed it? Would you do anything different? Thanks
 








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