Differential Oil

[jadmt]

You can discard the viscosity portion I did a typo when entering the viscosity in the form.

thanks. better change the filter .....

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[Pape]

thanks. better change the filter .....

To their defense I'm not their core / target client. For reference Alberta is the Oil and gas province therefore I let you image who the core client are.
This is the factory fill therefore I suspect all of this contamination is coming from the factory as I was probably the first one outside of the factory to look at it, as I previously mentioned: it was little low.

Never the less the recommendation is to continue to use the oil. Shockingly enough I will ignore that recommendation and change the oil when I have a chance. But wait there is more, I will also ignore the recommendation from Stellantis and go with 75w140 !!

 

[Tncdrew]

But wait there is more, I will also ignore the recommendation from Stellantis and go with 75w140 !!

It's pretty well known that a lot of their fluid recommendations are EPA driven.

 

[Pape]

It's pretty well known that a lot of their fluid recommendations are EPA driven.

We do not have EPA over here. But I can say that the whole point of their business is to help other business get the maximum return on fluid purchase. When you run a fleet and your fluid are not a QT but drum it start to be pretty penny.

 

[CarbonSteel]

There is ZERO difference between Jeep's specifications and Dana's aside from the oil viscosity being chosen by Jeep. The ONLY reason that a lower viscosity oil was selected over the 75W-140 specified by Dana is that Jeep is chasing CAFE credits (aka MPG), which equate to millions of dollars across a fleet. In a fleet where there are low MPG vehicles such as the Wrangler, the OEM does everything they can to increase the MPG to obtain those credits.

From lowering viscosities and capacities, to introducing the maximum number of plastics throughout the vehicle including the engine, to front axle disconnects, to transmissions with multiple over drive gearing, to start/stop systems, to weight reductions, and the list goes on. None of those changes are conducive to longevity.

Dana specifies 75W-140 for all Mxxx series axles used in the Jeep JL:

M186 Front - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-FRONT-D30-42019.pdf

M200 Rear - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-REAR-D35A-42019.pdf

M210 Front - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-FRONT-UD44A-42019.pdf

M220 Rear - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-REAR-UD44A-D44A-42019.pdf

 

[jadmt]

There is ZERO difference between Jeep's specifications and Dana's aside from the oil viscosity being chosen by Jeep. The ONLY reason that a lower viscosity oil was selected over the 75W-140 specified by Dana is that Jeep is chasing CAFE credits (aka MPG), which equate to millions of dollars across a fleet. In a fleet where there are low MPG vehicles such as the Wrangler, the OEM does everything they can to increase the MPG to obtain those credits.

From lowering viscosities and capacities, to introducing the maximum number of plastics throughout the vehicle including the engine, to front axle disconnects, to transmissions with multiple over drive gearing, to start/stop systems, to weight reductions, and the list goes on. None of those changes are conducive to longevity.

Dana specifies 75W-140 for all Mxxx series axles used in the Jeep JL:

M186 Front - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-FRONT-D30-42019.pdf

M200 Rear - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-REAR-D35A-42019.pdf

M210 Front - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-FRONT-UD44A-42019.pdf

M220 Rear - https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/SPECSHEET-JL-REAR-UD44A-D44A-42019.pdf

the crazy thing is Dana Spicer does not even make a fluid for their own product. When you go to their lubricants page the show no 75w140 and the 80W140 is listed as obsolete discontinued and they show they add extra warranty on their heavy duty and medium duty axles not sure what the consider hd and med duty probably big rigs but still odd they don't make a 75W140 being that is what they recommend. And based on Pape's analysis they ship with most likely 75w85 unless they ship empty and they get filled an the assembly plant.

https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/HAXL-PNI-113.pdf

 

[CarbonSteel]

the crazy thing is Dana Spicer does not even make a fluid for their own product. When you go to their lubricants page the show no 75w140 and the 80W140 is listed as obsolete discontinued and they show they add extra warranty on their heavy duty and medium duty axles not sure what the consider hd and med duty probably big rigs but still odd they don't make a 75W140 being that is what they recommend. And based on Pape's analysis they ship with most likely 75w85 unless they ship empty and they get filled an the assembly plant.

https://d3qx1uccksbb2n.cloudfront.net/docs/HAXL-PNI-113.pdf

I know of no automobile OEM that makes lubricating fluid of any type--they are always manufactured by one of the major oil companies and branded as the OEM label, so it is no surprise that Dana does not make fluids themselves.

I would opine that Dana ships the axles empty and the OEM fills it during assembly of the vehicle so there is less chance for leaks while shipping.

 

[Pape]

Interesting:
You can enjoy a 1.9% fuel savings improvement over standard FE 75W-90 oil and extend the warranty on your Spicer heavy-duty or medium-duty carriers

Still not close to the recommendation, I guess the EPA was there :P

 

[jadmt]

I know of no automobile OEM that makes lubricating fluid of any type--they are always manufactured by one of the major oil companies and branded as the OEM label, so it is no surprise that Dana does not make fluids themselves.

I would opine that Dana ships the axles empty and the OEM fills it during assembly of the vehicle so there is less chance for leaks while shipping.

According to Spicer BASF makes their gear lubricants. just odd they don't have their own branded 75W140 if that is what they recommend be used. I wonder if a oem dana 44 220M fails inside the warranty if jeep bills it back to Dana or if Jeep eats it? I wonder what the failure rate is on these? I know there are some people who probably have run factory filled diffs without ever changing it. I just went with Jeep's recommendation so hopefully if it goes it is with the warranty period.

 

[BigMaCro]

I've just changed mine at 50,000 miles. Note 3 quarts is enough for both diffs with some left over. I enjoyed using the Valvoline pouches, which help get around obstructions.

Note that I had no water in the oil, even though I've wheeled through water and mud pits many times. I agree that, having done so, I should have changed it sooner - I've been intending to get beefy diff covers, so I was waiting 'till then... anyway, these axles have breather hoses capped with Gore (tex) breather membranes, which seem to have worked well to prevent water ingress, even though they were definitely submerged.

 

[jax501]

I've just changed mine at 50,000 miles. Note 3 quarts is enough for both diffs with some left over. I enjoyed using the Valvoline pouches, which help get around obstructions.

Note that I had no water in the oil, even though I've wheeled through water and mud pits many times. I agree that, having done so, I should have changed it sooner - I've been intending to get beefy diff covers, so I was waiting 'till then... anyway, these axles have breather hoses capped with Gore (tex) breather membranes, which seem to have worked well to prevent water ingress, even though they were definitely submerged.

Don't forget, axle seals can leak. Even if the breathers are working, water can get through the axle seals into the diff.

 

[CarbonSteel]

According to Spicer BASF makes their gear lubricants. just odd they don't have their own branded 75W140 if that is what they recommend be used. I wonder if a oem dana 44 220M fails inside the warranty if jeep bills it back to Dana or if Jeep eats it? I wonder what the failure rate is on these? I know there are some people who probably have run factory filled diffs without ever changing it. I just went with Jeep's recommendation so hopefully if it goes it is with the warranty period.

Odds are, unless some heavy off-roading or towing is happening in combination with weight increase due to modifications, most axles have no issues. Jeep's biggest problem (of their own doing) with axles has been the failed locker modules and limited slip clutch wear.

Most other failures are caused by the owner--tires too large, overloading, etc.

 

[BigMaCro]

Don't forget, axle seals can leak. Even if the breathers are working, water can get through the axle seals into the diff.

Agreed. As I said, I intended to change it sooner. I'm just reporting that even so, I had no water ingress.

 

[jadmt]

Odds are, unless some heavy off-roading or towing is happening in combination with weight increase due to modifications, most axles have no issues. Jeep's biggest problem (of their own doing) with axles has been the failed locker modules and limited slip clutch wear.

Most other failures are caused by the owner--tires too large, overloading, etc.

funny I had written but then deleted it the only failures I see is spider gears and clutch pacs in the LSD on JK dana 44's and locker issues and bent rear axle shafts on JK's, I have not heard of that on JL's too much. I am only on 35's so not too worried yet

 

[Tncdrew]

I know of no automobile OEM that makes lubricating fluid of any type--they are always manufactured by one of the major oil companies and branded as the OEM label, so it is no surprise that Dana does not make fluids themselves.

I would opine that Dana ships the axles empty and the OEM fills it during assembly of the vehicle so there is less chance for leaks while shipping.

That's what I was going to say...
Dana/Spicer is not in the oil business.

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