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DEF system removal.

TX_Ovrlnd

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I'm fairly sure that I derailed it to debunk completely idiotic claims that some people seem to be convinced are accurate. I'm pretty sure, however, that I'm not terrified of my own shadow in regards to what's being discussed.

Hell, even my wife keeps talking about deleting all of the emissions crap from mine. I've had to explain to her that CO requires diesels to pass inspection when they hit the three year mark...just when the warranty expires and we'd want to consider doing something like this.
We support the thing! Anyhow... any kind of weight savings is good for the overlander lifestyle. Colorado was in my top 3 places to retire, it's so pretty. I loved living there, I just did not have a good feeling with how the populace was leaning. Friends there still swear they're all moving to Texas.
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driventoadventure

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I was a scientist.
Chemistry undergrad and first 10 years of my career in product and process development.
Got an MBA and am now a faceless suit.
Heh, glad I am not the only one with a similar story. Although I don't wear a suit unless I have to...
 
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variableknife

variableknife

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Your exactly right.... Some people instead of genuinely trying to help, they are more out to prove you wrong and themselves right and then it goes on and on and on... I have to learn not to participate... lol

My apologies OP @variableknife for ? in your thread. I'm sorry.
No worries. That's what these threads are for. If I'm not sure on something, I ask. I would much rather feel foolish to you all than to law enforcement
 

Valpo Jeep

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I have never had a diesel, but everything I have read about the DEF system is it seems to break on all platforms it’s on and is very expensive to fix.
 

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No worries. That's what these threads are for. If I'm not sure on something, I ask. I would much rather feel foolish to you all than to law enforcement
I meant about getting way off subject and down a rabbit hole... on another topic. Its not nice to walk all over someone else thread.
 

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The law enforcement around my neck of the wood wouldn't give a shit left or right. I'm in "roll coal" central and they are the ones the need to get the hammer of God dropped on them. Yet, there they are black smoking the whole fucking Broadway strip.

I am all for clean tunes. Whether that keeps everything intact or removing, go ahead. Seems most people want to tune the diesel to have a cleaner engine for longevity and the byproduct is better numbers (hp,tq,mpg).
 

Jeepiner

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One sub group here is so terrified of their own shadow they will try whatever they can to derail these innocent discussions about tunes and weight reduction.

The hotrod folks of the past shared a common mindset with the tuners of today. You do it for the passion and seeing what you can really get out of the ride, and also personalization. A good tune does not blow smoke, that’s for show. Some people are a little too into being told what to do and how to live, sad state of affairs. Our forefathers would be disappointed.
You said it best my brother.

Said sub-group would willfully give their own wives to be bent over by another man if they were sternly told. Our forefathers would be disappointed in the current state of affairs, indeed.
 

ALeeL

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The law enforcement around my neck of the wood wouldn't give a shit left or right. I'm in "roll coal" central and they are the ones the need to get the hammer of God dropped on them. Yet, there they are black smoking the whole fucking Broadway strip.

I am all for clean tunes. Whether that keeps everything intact or removing, go ahead. Seems most people want to tune the diesel to have a cleaner engine for longevity and the byproduct is better numbers (hp,tq,mpg).

Yeah, with today's variable geometry turbos, multi-fire injectors, and higher fuel pressures, you really have to purposely tune it to blow black smoke. My diesel truck and car do not blow huge clouds of black smoke even on their highest power setting. They may blow a puff of black smoke when you first get on it, but it quickly goes away once the turbo spools.

If only the particulates coming out of direct injected gasoline engine engines were big enough to be seen like they are with diesels. People don't think about it because it can't bee seen, but GDI gas engines blow out up to 10 times more particulate matter than todays diesels yet there is no federal law requiring filters. It s even worse because these particulates are small enough to get into your bloodstream unlike diesel particulates.

There are way more GDI vehicles on the road than diesels yet not one person here complaining about diesel smoke don't say a word about GDI engines.. Out of sight, out of mind I guess.
 

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driventoadventure

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One sub group here is so terrified of their own shadow they will try whatever they can to derail these innocent discussions about tunes and weight reduction.

The hotrod folks of the past shared a common mindset with the tuners of today. You do it for the passion and seeing what you can really get out of the ride, and also personalization. A good tune does not blow smoke, that’s for show. Some people are a little too into being told what to do and how to live, sad state of affairs. Our forefathers would be disappointed.
The problem with your statement is that more often than not, conversations around deleting emissions equipment and other topics which devolve to childish insults like that show a significant lack of fundamental understanding at the processes involved. You mention weight savings from removing emissions equipment, but then add just as much (if not more) weight for things like rooftop tents. While making your vehicle worse from an emissions - and oftentimes efficiency - standpoint.

If you look at the hotrod folks of the past, they were about getting as much power as they could from their vehicles by adjusting carburetor efficiency so the fuel would burn more completely, not by simply pouring more fuel in there. It's the same analogy now - you have a group that wants to just dump more fuel, versus a group that wants to burn the same fuel better.... In the more topic-specific case, using DEF allows you to burn the fuel more completely, because you can burn it hotter and closer to stoichiometric peak. DPFs are something you can remove if you really care about capability - if you just want to put a middle finger to breathable air - but saying that it's a sign of weakness to give a shit about air quality is late-idicracy "it's got electrolytes - it's got what plants crave" levels of stupid.

This is why some people say do the smart thing first - get a good tune from a quality shop like GDE or Banks. That's going to be significantly better than just removing emissions equipment. The reason to remove the equipment is to reduce complexity and therefore maintenance, but it's dishonest to day that doesn't have drawbacks.
 

Tread4Lo

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I don't think anyone in here wants to produce power by dumping more fuel. We want a better combustion, more as you say the hotrodders did back in the day. But there were a lot of hotrodders that did weight loss as well with removal of cats, vacuum lines, whatever else restriction. You would bet if they had a DEF/EGR system on their vehicles back then, they would have surely ripped this stuff off too.

I don't think Banks is a good source as a "good tune". It's a sensor fooler or enhancer, whichever you want to call it. It could be dumping more fuel for the power gains.

This may be incorrect, but I view MPG gains as a more complete combustion process. Since it's using the less fuel to get the same power as before.

Also, I am a layman if there ever was one with tuning.
 

driventoadventure

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I don't think anyone in here wants to produce power by dumping more fuel. We want a better combustion, more as you say the hotrodders did back in the day. But there were a lot of hotrodders that did weight loss as well with removal of cats, vacuum lines, whatever else restriction. You would bet if they had a DEF/EGR system on their vehicles back then, they would have surely ripped this stuff off too.

I don't think Banks is a good source as a "good tune". It's a sensor fooler or enhancer, whichever you want to call it. It could be dumping more fuel for the power gains.

This may be incorrect, but I view MPG gains as a more complete combustion process. Since it's using the less fuel to get the same power as before.

Also, I am a layman if there ever was one with tuning.

Ahh, yeah if they don't mess with anything like timing, transmission response, delivery curve, etc then yeah they aren't an example of a good tune. In the past they were more respectable than that...
 

TX_Ovrlnd

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The problem with your statement is that more often than not, conversations around deleting emissions equipment and other topics which devolve to childish insults like that show a significant lack of fundamental understanding at the processes involved. You mention weight savings from removing emissions equipment, but then add just as much (if not more) weight for things like rooftop tents. While making your vehicle worse from an emissions - and oftentimes efficiency - standpoint.

If you look at the hotrod folks of the past, they were about getting as much power as they could from their vehicles by adjusting carburetor efficiency so the fuel would burn more completely, not by simply pouring more fuel in there. It's the same analogy now - you have a group that wants to just dump more fuel, versus a group that wants to burn the same fuel better.... In the more topic-specific case, using DEF allows you to burn the fuel more completely, because you can burn it hotter and closer to stoichiometric peak. DPFs are something you can remove if you really care about capability - if you just want to put a middle finger to breathable air - but saying that it's a sign of weakness to give a shit about air quality is late-idicracy "it's got electrolytes - it's got what plants crave" levels of stupid.

This is why some people say do the smart thing first - get a good tune from a quality shop like GDE or Banks. That's going to be significantly better than just removing emissions equipment. The reason to remove the equipment is to reduce complexity and therefore maintenance, but it's dishonest to day that doesn't have drawbacks.
Usually the other subset misread or misinterpret arguments, some do it intentional. They usually always have something in their counter stance centered around clean air and that anyone against their position is not on the moral high ground. It’s enjoyable to read their stance as it always goes back to hive mind talking points that were well crafted for them. It is expected as it is the new normal. The flaw with that logic is that it lumps everyone into only one mindset category when that is just not at all true in reality, but they want to ignore reality.
Most serious tuners do not want to just dump extra fuel, that is irresponsible and for show not go. I want just the efficiency and go power. These machines do not need all the inefficient DEF and EGR systems, they’re a manufactured point of failure and extra money source. I digress, I am not working anymore to bring anyone to my side. I do what I do because I want to do it.
 

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https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1970-pontiac-gto#:~:text=The GTO was judged by,bore and 3.75-in.

The GTO was judged by what lay under its twin-scooped hood, and the 1970 models offered a number of big-bore choices. The standard engine, shared with the Grand Prix, Firebird and Trans Am, was Pontiac's 400-cu.in. V-8, which, with its 4.12-in. bore and 3.75-in. stroke and 10.25:1-compression ratio for manual-equipped cars (automatics had 10.0-compression) made 350hp at 5,000 rpm and 445 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3,000 rpm. The Ram-Air III upgrade brought 10.5-compression, 366hp at 5,100 rpm and 445 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3,600 rpm; the top 400-cu.in. V-8 was the Ram-Air IV, with 370hp at 5,500 rpm and 445 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3,900 rpm. The ultimate GTO engine was the 455-cu.in. V-8, which had a 4.15-in. bore and 4.21-in. stroke and could be had with or without Ram-Air. It used a 10.25:1 compression ratio, and made 360hp at 4,300 rpm and 500 lbs.-ft. of torque at 3,100 rpm. With the 366hp Ram-Air III engine and a 4-speed manual, the GTO could run 0-60 mph in 6.0 seconds and cover the quarter-mile in 14.7-seconds at 98 mph.

1970 GTO, 14.7s at 98 MPH in the quarter.
2022 Wrangler 392, 12.9s at 104 in the quarter.

Huh... ?‍♂

Wow. Some of those muscle cars could almost catch a stock 4xe.
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