DEF system removal.

[SargeDiesel]

Right! Who needs this kind of headache for “I get 2 mpg better than you do”.

Little more to than that, I doubt people do it for a mpg contest.

Sponsored

 

[SargeDiesel]

What muscle cars back in the day made more power than today's muscle cars?

Note, of course, that manufacturers started using SAE net horsepower ratings instead of gross in '72. They were all overstated by about 30% prior to that change.

What muscle cars of today... lol please don't say , charger/camero...ect

 

[Ratbert]

What muscle cars of today... lol please don't say , charger/camero...ect

Some data please?

 

[SargeDiesel]

Some data please?

What kind of data would you like... ? Lots of data out there on a variety of topics.

I was just messing around... but I'm not going to get into a pee pee contest. YES todays cars EASILY make more horsepower and torque than yesterday's... due to advancements in technology, materials and manufacturing ability.
BUT
When you say HOTROD, I think most people (or atleast anyone over a certain age) would immediately think 69 Camaro / 70 Chevelle /69-70 GTO @ 450hp & 500 ftlbs torque.... with displacement, not technology...
Not the 2023 "everday - driven" charger of today I see on every street corner.

 

[SargeDiesel]

A 1968 Camaro SS made 325hp.
A 2023 Camaro SS makes 455hp.

And a 1970 GTO made 450... naturally ?‍

 

[Deleted User 38384]

 

[Bayrat]

Just be thankful that you don't have a tier 3 diesel like a Kubota tractor. Every so often you have to crank up the rpms to burn off the particulars that collect in the clean exhaust system. DEF is just an additive to bypass this burn off process. All of this is to help keep our air cleaner. Not a bad thing....after all its our only Earth. I would not try and bypass the system.

I do own a tier 3 diesel Kubota track loader. It's the only emission equipped equipment I have to deal with. I simply keep working when the light tells me it's in regen. However, the RPM range has to be at a certain level, so, if you are not needing those revs, you end up wasting fuel. Is it really reducing anything at that point?

 

[Deleted User 38384]

NOx can be converted to ozone in the right circumstance but when it’s in our atmosphere is harmful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx

 

[SargeDiesel]

Yeah, awesome cars, too bad there’s not a current version to compare. That would be a cool car.

You said a mouthful there bud.... imagine using today's technology and knowledge on some of yesterday's hotrods... only problem with recreating a current version of an old car would be all of the restrictions... but still it would be amazing.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Yup, I have my BFG dandelion all terrains on order.

Don't worry guy, they have zero replacements for tires that are any bit reliable. They have those NASA made tires they got on the Mars Rover, but they're not applicable to asphalt and concrete roads.

They have zero replacements for tires, that's why you're not hearing about this from anybody other than a quick snippet in the news couple weeks back.

Let's be honest here if anybody actually cared about the environment, the second that study came out people would be jumping to do more research on it and then the whole drive would be shifted to EV vehicles and a replacement for tires.

Let's be honest here, the focus is not on the environment, it's on control and money. Go figure.



I forget who said it above but pretty much yeah, removing the EGR will allow for a cleaner fuel air ratio, it'll allow you to use less fuel to get the same punch, but you need a tune to do it, otherwise you're not achieving anything. But if you do get it tuned you can get better MPGs, also too your engine will last a whole lot longer potentially.

When it comes to the DEF tank, I don't honestly know enough about how it works, but I do understand that it doesn't really do much for MPGs. The DPF however does create a back pressure on the exhaust which is when it does its regens, and obviously back pressure on exhaust is choking your exhaust and therefore lowering your engines movements. So I could see DPF deletes maybe helping MPGs, but you'd still need a tune regardless.

I don't really see any issue or reason to delete a DEF tank. Doesn't really make sense to me honestly. But you didn't hear that from me, now to go back to my rebellious nature, and drill some more holes in my tailgate.

 

[Ratbert]

And a 1970 GTO made 450... naturally ?‍

I'll assume that your numbers are correct since I can't seem to find anything stating above about 370 hp for the GTO. That, of course is SAE gross horsepower and not net, which is ~30% lower than what was being reported prior to the change in regulations that went into effect in '72.

450 hp (if it was net horsepower), of course, is on the lower end of higher performance cars today. Hell, my 2014 RS-5 had 444 net horsepower, which isn't even a muscle car. That's significantly more than 450 gross.

 

[Ratbert]

You're proposing an environmentally safer alternative of making tires with dandelions? I wonder how much grip and flex they'll have on the rocks.

 

[SargeDiesel]

I'll assume that your numbers are correct since I can't seem to find anything stating above about 370 hp for the GTO. That, of course is SAE gross horsepower and not net, which is ~30% lower than what was being reported prior to the change in regulations that went into effect in '72.

450 hp (if it was net horsepower), of course, is on the lower end of higher performance cars today. Hell, my 2014 RS-5 had 444 net horsepower, which isn't even a muscle car. That's significantly more than 450 gross.

Ok...

 

[Ratbert]

Ok...

And, as expected, no data to back anything up.

 

[ALeeL]

NOx can be converted to ozone in the right circumstance but when it’s in our atmosphere is harmful.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx

Only in large concentrated quantities like in heavily congested cities with millions of residents. NOx is not like carbon in the fact that it has an effect on the air no matter where it emitted. NOx does not last as long and easily dissipates into the stratosphere where it become good ozone.

As I stated, many of us are not within these highly populated regions where NOx gets concentrated enough to become a health hazard yet we have to live with these emissions devises for those that do since the EPA's solution is one size fits all regardless if you live in these areas or not.

I will also point out that if you look at the pre and post DEF NOx requirements, it is less than .1 g/hr-hp. So, essentially, we have to the DEF industry and factories making the DEF, the factories making the DEF plastic jugs, fleets of trucks delivering DEF, fleets of mining equipment for the rare minerals in SCR where DEF is injected and more pollution just for less than .1 g/hr-hp.

From my experience dealing with the EPA and other government bureaucracy, they generally just tell the market to meet a number or law and never go back to see if meeting that number creates more pollution as a whole. And once the law or number is established, it is 100 times harder to take it back even if it is found to put out more pollution.

Sponsored