3.6 l Engine Oil Type

[1BadManVan]

Not even close. GTL can't touch PAO for pour point. Neither can Group III. But it is certainly good enough and very low. Ultra is very good oil.

Mobil 1 EP 0w20 -62.5 degrees (F) pour point, 455 (F) flash point
60-70% PAO base according to Safety Data Sheet

Pennzoil UP 0w20 -54.4 (F) pour point 406.4 (F) flash point

Viscosity at 212 (F) is about the same with M1 at 8.6 and PUP at 8.8

PUP uses Gas to Liquid base stocks, which are excellent. In no way am I knocking PUP. I've used it and like it. In fact, I like GTL base stocks better than Group III, even though Group III tend to have a higher flash point. That said, PUP will handle anything these engines will throw at it, with ease.

I'd say PUP is my 2nd favorite oil behind M1 EP and is probably tied only by Havoline Pro DS, in my ranking. I like Pennzoil Platinum, too.

Appreciate all the info. I can easily find Mobil 1 EP on sale here for basically the same price as PUP sales. So i might as well go that route for both vehicles, even more so on my Durango as I tow with it as well.

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[roaniecowpony]

I’ll have to refresh my memory a bit but I believe pennzoil ultra has a lower pour point then Mobil 1 EP, don’t remember for sure about the flash point. But they are comparable on those spectrums. It’s the PAO that has me interested in moving over. I believe what turned me off originally a few years back was the lack certification with chrysler, purely for a warranty aspect. But it seems that’s been resolved now.

I recall using EP before they got a dexos license from GM. Eventually they got the license.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Appreciate all the info. I can easily find Mobil 1 EP on sale here for basically the same price as PUP sales. So i might as well go that route for both vehicles, even more so on my Durango as I tow with it as well.

I like the availability of M1 and can find it regularly cheap at Wally World.

 

[DanW]

I think most fully synthetic oils, many of which are group III, are very good, too. Others I wouldn't hesitate to run include Valvoline, Shell Rotella Gas Truck, Napa (made by Valvoline), Quaker State, and Mobil 1 AFE, ESP X2, Truck & SUV (those all have some PAO).

Here are a couple surprises...Walmart Supertech, Supertech Advanced, Costco Kirkland Signature, and Mag 1. All are made by Warren Distribution and appear to be solid Group 3 performers. I ran Supertech Advanced in my wife's JL for 4600 miles and did a UOA where it showed well.

Castrol is excellent, too, but I've never been a fan for some reason. Amsoil Signature is outstanding but I hate their marketing scheme. Schaeffer's (spelling?) has a good rep, too.

I almost forgot Redline. It's an outstanding Group 4 based oil that has a rep for super clean engines. I run their ATF C+ in my manual transmission and transfer case. It is supposed to be an ATF+4 on steroids with higher performance all around. It made my transmission smoother even though it was smooth to begin with. But Redline products, like Amsoil and Shaeffer's, is expensive.

Just my humble opinions on all of these.

 

[jmr]

I run 5W-30 in our 3.6 Grand Cherokee just like I used to in her 2.0T Cherokee.
OW-20 is for CAFE to get better fuel mileage 5W-30 will benefit engine protection.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I run 5W-30 in our 3.6 Grand Cherokee just like I used to in her 2.0T Cherokee.
OW-20 is for CAFE to get better fuel mileage 5W-30 will benefit engine protection.

I live in the southwest and have standardized my oil for the three vehicles to 5W-30 M1 EP. If I lived north in the snow belt, I'd probably re-think that for winter oil.

 

[DanW]

I live in the southwest and have standardized my oil for the three vehicles to 5W-30 M1 EP. If I lived north in the snow belt, I'd probably re-think that for winter oil.

My bet is that the 5w30 will do fine and changed appropriately, will enable the engine to outlast the rest of the Jeep. And I know plenty of JL owners running it and nobody's had an issue. It is thicker, but not by much, especially with some brands on the thin end of the 30w spectrum.

But for anyone worried about the lighter 0w20, keep in mind that our version of the Pentastar (complete redesign of the heads valve train, and oil pan, and even some redesign of the block) was designed with 0w20 in mind in all climates. For example, the crankshaft journals were made smaller, going from 72mm to 68mm. (The original Pentastar was developed using 5w30). The tolerances are tighter on this engine in a number of other areas, too. To top it off, all testing done on this engine during development was done with 0w20. They didn't use any other weights. They knew they'd specify 0w20 from the start and took advantage of its properties.

Another thing to note is that the 0w20 oils had tremendous development poured into them by the oil companies and blenders. That's why you don't see a conventional oil in that weight. The only syn-blend I ever saw was Pennzoil Gold and I was told its base stock was still mostly Group III full synthetic with almost no conventional oil in it at all. (It disappeared because it floundered in the marketplace due to full synthetics being just as cheap to produce and giving it no price advantage on the store shelf.)

FCA knew the Pentastar was a very durable engine even after switching to 5w20. The well publicized 625k mile Pentastar did it on 5w20 in a Promaster van. The timing chain guides finally broke and the timing chains were stretched and worn. But the rest of the engine, including bearings, showed very little wear. A new timing chain would have put it back on the road but the guy found a junkyard Pentastar with low miles for $800 and the swap was easier than swapping chains. That engine was run mostly on Mobil 1 for 7k OCI's with a few runs of Valvoline and a few runs longer than 7k.

And two final notes: 1. using M1 EP as an example....The 0w20 actually has a higher flash point than the 5w30. BUT, the 5w30 will still likely have a better HTHS rating. 2. A friend who was one of the original Pentastar's designers runs the specified 5w20 in his Chrysler 300, even though it was originally developed with 5w30. He's a believer in the slightly thinner oil.

Ok, last note, I promise....5w30 tends to shear more than 0w20 and often winds up a 20w by the end of the OCI. 0w20 shears very little. Every UOA I've done or seen in the 3.6 with 0w20 or even 5w20 showed it to still be a 20w at the end of even long runs of 8k or more. Again, LOTS of chemical engineering was put into the 0w20 formulation.

 

[DanW]

Mobil 1 EP 5w30
Flash Point 446 (F)
Pour Point -40 (F)
PAO base stock content 5-10%

Mobil 1 EP 0w20
Flash Point 462.5 (F)
Pour Point -65.2 (F)
PAO base stock content 60-70%

So again, at the extremes, the M1 EP 0w20 hands down outperforms the 5w30. That said, I'd still run 5w30 if that's what Stellantis specified. The DI/Turbo engines dilute the oil with fuel. 5w30 handles that better. Every UOA I did on my 3.5 Ecoboost showed the M1 EP 5w30 had sheared down to a 20 weight by the end of the OCI. I mainly ran M1 EP 5w30 in that engine because it just held up to fuel dilution better than others and still had TBN left at 10k miles.

But there is more to it than just pour point and flash point, but they do show the presence of PAO. THere are other factors in manufacturers choosing different weights, too, and yes, fuel economy is a part of it. But racing engines are now running on thin oils, too, because they hold up MUCH better than they used to, thanks to modern chemical engineering. For example, Indycars qualify on straight 0 weight oil. Yes, straight 0 weight! And those engines must last 2k miles. Far longer than the beasts they used to run on 60 weight oil.

 

[dsgrey]

I like the availability of M1 and can find it regularly cheap at Wally World.

Plus they'll ship it for free based on a certain dollar amount. I bought two online and they'll be here Sunday via FedEx.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Plus they'll ship it for free based on a certain dollar amount. I bought two online and they'll be here Sunday via FedEx.

From Walmart online?

 

[Caleb75]

My current fill is Amsoil Signature Series 0w30. As someone mentioned above 20 weight oil is for CAFE numbers which only a computer could measure the benefits. 5w30 or 0w30 weight oils are the optimum weight to protect the majority of all water cooled engines. I have read over information from several sources and I found a lot of information on one particular blog. That blog does it's own independent testing. If anyone is interested in any Amsoil products please shoot me a private message. I will be glad to let you know how to get their entire product line at wholesale pricing.

 

[DanW]

My current fill is Amsoil Signature Series 0w30. As someone mentioned above 20 weight oil is for CAFE numbers which only a computer could measure the benefits. 5w30 or 0w30 weight oils are the optimum weight to protect the majority of all water cooled engines. I have read over information from several sources and I found a lot of information on one particular blog. That blog does it's own independent testing. If anyone is interested in any Amsoil products please shoot me a private message. I will be glad to let you know how to get their entire product line at wholesale pricing.

And the Amsoil marketing appears, once again without being a site sponsor. Wholesale pricing. Right. Nothing but marketing BS. And of course, Amsoil knows better than the folks who designed the 3.6, including my friend who runs 20 weight and was in on the development of the original Pentastar when they used 5w30.

0w30 requires quite a dose of viscosity improving additives which are prone to shear. So you still wind up with it shearing down and it can be less shear stable than a 5w30. It will probably do fine in this engine, but no better and probably not as well as the specified 0w20.

If I were to run Amsoil in this engine, it would be Signature 0w20.

 

[Caleb75]

And the Amsoil marketing appears, once again without being a site sponsor. Wholesale pricing. Right. Nothing but marketing BS. And of course, Amsoil knows better than the folks who designed the 3.6, including my friend who runs 20 weight and was in on the development of the original Pentastar when they used 5w30.

0w30 requires quite a dose of viscosity improving additives which are prone to shear. So you still wind up with it shearing down and it can be less shear stable than a 5w30. It will probably do fine in this engine, but no better and probably not as well as the specified 0w20.

If I were to run Amsoil in this engine, it would be Signature 0w20.

You are entitled to your opinion about Amsoil. Amsoil, nor any Amsoil blog provided me with any information in regards to 0w30 or 5w30 being the optimum weight to protect most water cooled engines. Clearly the switch to thinner and thinner oils is for CAFE numbers. The goal of Chrysler and any other car manufacturer is to get you through the warranty period. 0w20 will do that and some 0w20 oils do provide good wear protection. The manufacturer needs you to trade in and get a newer model, that's how they make money along with out of warranty work. I simply repeated that 30wt does provide more protectionthan 20wt. The blog I got very detailed information from is Rat540. Based on his testing Amsoil didn't finish first.(a close second). I guess some Amsoil guy rubbed you the wrong way, I am not that guy. I didn't drop my site or anything. I just simply put that out there if anyone was interested. In fact the vast majority of oils that meet Dexos and other industry standards would serve the average Jeep user well. If you do Severe duty, heavy off roading or rolling on bigger tires than those folks need extra protection.

 

[DanW]

You are entitled to your opinion about Amsoil. Amsoil, nor any Amsoil blog provided me with any information in regards to 0w30 or 5w30 being the optimum weight to protect most water cooled engines. Clearly the switch to thinner and thinner oils is for CAFE numbers. The goal of Chrysler and any other car manufacturer is to get you through the warranty period. 0w20 will do that and some 0w20 oils do provide good wear protection. The manufacturer needs you to trade in and get a newer model, that's how they make money along with out of warranty work. I simply repeated that 30wt does provide more protectionthan 20wt. The blog I got very detailed information from is Rat540. Based on his testing Amsoil didn't finish first.(a close second). I guess some Amsoil guy rubbed you the wrong way, I am not that guy. I didn't drop my site or anything. I just simply put that out there if anyone was interested. In fact the vast majority of oils that meet Dexos and other industry standards would serve the average Jeep user well. If you do Severe duty, heavy off roading or rolling on bigger tires than those folks need extra protection.

Wrong on the goal of the design. The design goal is a percentage (I cannot recall the exact #, but it is over 90 and may be 95) will get to 150k miles with no major problems. That's well beyond the warranty. So Amsoil misinformation persists. The Pentastar has actually exceeded their design goal better than other engines in their portfolio and better than most in the industry.

My problem is not with Amsoil itself. Signature is a good oil. It's the marketing BS which is well documented in this thread. That combined with its price keeps me from even considering it.

 

[Caleb75]

And the Amsoil marketing appears, once again without being a site sponsor. Wholesale pricing. Right. Nothing but marketing BS. And of course, Amsoil knows better than the folks who designed the 3.6, including my friend who runs 20 weight and was in on the development of the original Pentastar when they used 5w30.

0w30 requires quite a dose of viscosity improving additives which are prone to shear. So you still wind up with it shearing down and it can be less shear stable than a 5w30. It will probably do fine in this engine, but no better and probably not as well as the specified 0w20.

If I were to run Amsoil in this engine, it would be Signature 0w20.

You are entitled to your opinion about Amsoil. Amsoil, nor any Amsoil blog provided me with any information in regards to 0w30 or 5w30 being the optimum weight to protect most water cooled engines. Clearly the switch to thinner and thinner oils is for CAFE numbers. The goal of Chrysler and any other car manufacturer is to get you through the warranty period. 0w20 will do that and some 0w20 oils do provide good wear protection. The manufacturer needs to to trade in and get a newer model, that's how they make moneu along with out of warranty work. I simply repeated that 30wt does provide more protectionthan 20wt. The blog I got very detailed information from is Rat540. Based on his testing Amsoil didn't finish first.(a close second). I guess some Amsoil guy rubbed you the wrong way, I am not that guy. I didn't drop my site or anything. I just simply put that out there if anyone was interested. In fact the vast majority of oils that meet Dexos and other industry standards would serve the average Jeep user well. If you do Severe duty, heavy off roaing or rolling on bigger tires than those folks need extra protection.

Wrong on the goal of the design. The design goal is a percentage (I cannot recall the exact #, but it is over 90 and may be 95) will get to 150k miles with no major problems. That's well beyond the warranty. So Amsoil misinformation persists. The Pentastar has actually exceeded their design goal better than other engines in their portfolio and better than most in the industry.

My problem is not with Amsoil itself. Signature is a good oil. It's the marketing BS which is well documented in this thread. That combined with its price keeps me from even considering it.

I will reiterate that I am not quoting Amsoil informationon about 30wt or anything else I wrote about. So, there is no "Amsoil misinformation " here. It is a fact that the manufacturer's goal is to get the customer through the warranty period. That is the goal of any business. I never said that most would not run problem free well past that. I own a Jeep with the Pentastar, in fact I have had 4 vehicles with the 3.6. I have been blessed that all had no major issues except the first one. It was a 2011 Grand Cherokee with the dreaded cylinder 2 misfire. Chrysler did give me a letter on it covering any cylinder head replacement up to 150k. I chose to trade it in for another Grand Cherokee.
I am not trashing Chrysler or our Jeeps. I am a guy who is brand loyal, loves Jeep and has a strange interest in engine oil. I have used many brands over my lifetime and my 25 years in law enforcement. I found Amsoil works great for me and the applications I use it. There are many fine oil products out there, I stated that in my earlier post. One thing I can assure you is that I believe in honesty and transparency. If any admin wishes to erase the part of my earlier post in regards to how to save on Amsoil, then I understand and hard feelings.

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