Question on 1st Tire Rotation

[Zandcwhite]

Late to the party, but the advantages of doing a 5-tire rotation are overwhelming.

1 - Extend the life of your set of tires by 20%.
2 - You can do tire rotations by safely lifting only on corner at a time in your garage.
3 - If you have a flat tire, your spare tire will have the same diameter as the tire it's replacing. If you have a nearly worn out tire that gets a flat and puts a never used spare, you will cause different wheel speeds which can overheat and wear out your diff and transfer case if you are in 4WD.
4 - Tires have both a wear and age limit. If you don't use it, you lose it. After about 6 years, most tires are showing signs of drying and perform worst.
5 - 5 Tire rotation makes sure your spare TPMS is in good working order and that the lug nuts on the spare are not seized or have a wheel lock that was lost. Last thing you need is getting a flat and not being able to get the spare tire off.
6 - 5 or six years from now, when it is time to buy new tires, you may want to go with another brand, another size, etc. If you didn't use your spare you wasted it.

Agree with everything but number 3. For the same reason almost every vehicle on the road comes with a donut spare these days. Even my XJ came with a donut spare. Unless you're driving with the locker engaged it is not an issue. An open diff won't heat up from different sized tire any more than it does from driving around corners. The transfer case couldn't heat up at all as there is no diff and thereby no difference in drive shaft speeds is even possible. Some AWD systems need tires to be the same size due to clutches etc that will heat up and wear, but it's not an issue in the JL period. Worst case you could get a traction control light as the computer would wonder why there's a wheel speed difference but I'm not sure you could get enough difference in size from a new tire and a bald one of the same size for even that to happen.

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[Ratbert]

3) @Ratbert recommended it.

I'm no expert. Just an opinionated asshole.

Oh, no balance weights on my rims like my Camaro has, at least not on the outside, and I forgot to inquire about that for these 4WD Jeeps.

You should have a crapload of weights on the interior of each wheel. Tires this large almost always need help to balance. None of that should have changed unless you had them balanced.

 

[Ratbert]

The transfer case couldn't heat up at all as there is no diff and thereby no difference in drive shaft speeds is even possible.

Any thoughts on where that energy goes when there's a difference in tire diameter?

I'm thinking the only thing that can give without unintentional damage is the tread.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Agree with everything but number 3. For the same reason almost every vehicle on the road comes with a donut spare these days. Even my XJ came with a donut spare. Unless you're driving with the locker engaged it is not an issue. An open diff won't heat up from different sized tire any more than it does from driving around corners. The transfer case couldn't heat up at all as there is no diff and thereby no difference in drive shaft speeds is even possible. Some AWD systems need tires to be the same size due to clutches etc that will heat up and wear, but it's not an issue in the JL period. Worst case you could get a traction control light as the computer would wonder why there's a wheel speed difference but I'm not sure you could get enough difference in size from a new tire and a bald one of the same size for even that to happen.

You could put a 1" difference in diameter tire on a corner and drive it with no ill effects. If you put three, 33" tires on and one 32" tire on, at 60 mph, the 33" tires would theoretically turn at 611 rpm. The one 32" tire would theoretically turn at 630 rpm. In order for your jeep to do that in a straight line, the open differential would allow the spider gears to rotate at 19 rpm, within the differential carrier, to make up the difference in size. Not a big deal. Not a huge heat input to the differential.

 

[Riverjeep]

But why, please.

Jay I am doing all five because I want to wear the spare down in case I end up down the road with a different type tire. On my last Jeep I only did 4 and the tire design changed so I ended up with a slightly different looking spare tire. You have a cover though so that may not be a concern for you.

 

[sunset]

Hey there
2022 JLURD @ 38,500 miles
My personal choice has been to let dealer do the 5 tire rotation during the 3 free Oil Change & Rotation schedule of Jeep Wave program.

Hi,

Stellantis reduced the number of free oil changes and tire rotations from three to two for MY2024. When I bought the Jeep, I told my Service Manager of this who was surprised to hear it and offered to give me one free oil change if I would fill out a survey about my overall experience with them. I asked if she would include a free tire rotation to make it the same as Stellantis and she agreed. I did not feel obligated to exaggerate on the survey because it really was a good experience with that dealer. I would recommend them. She likely figured as much as our rapport had been good and likely would have asked me to do the survey anyway and saw an opportunity to be nice, that's how I really feel about it. They treated me with respect as I did to them. No bullying from either party all throughout. And, they had the best price in our state (I contacted all of the dealers in WA) and rivaled that of Granger if you factor in the cost of transportation to/from Iowa. Afterwards, I learned from a local buddy that he also bought his Jeep from that same out-of-town dealership, a nice little affirmation.

They are located only 95 miles down the road so I will make it a nice little road trip when I go to redeem her offer.

You should have a crapload of weights on the interior of each wheel. Tires this large almost always need help to balance. None of that should have changed unless you had them balanced.

Are you saying that I have to specifically request a balancing as a separate thing to do when rotating tires?

 

[Ratbert]

Are you saying that I have to specifically request a balancing as a separate thing to do when rotating tires?

Absolutely. Unless there are balance-related symptoms there's no need for it.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Any thoughts on where that energy goes when there's a difference in tire diameter?

I'm thinking the only thing that can give without unintentional damage is the tread.

The spider gears? Same as when you turn a corner. The front and rear driveshafts are connected solid when in 4wd, they can only spin at the same speed. Being that you have 2 open difs, all 4 tires can still turn at different speeds (as they do when turning). You could run 4 different sized tires, although I'm guessing handling would be terrible.

 

[sunset]

Absolutely. Unless there are balance-related symptoms there's no need for it.

I never had to ask with the Camaro but I also don't know if they rebalanced every time they rotated its tires. I always assumed they did.

Since my Camaro rims can have non-identical amount of weights between them, I assume so can the Jeep rims? Makes me wonder why it makes sense to allow the Jeep rims' weights to follow a given tire as the tire moves its way around the Jeep. Times four.

You live and learn. Thanks.

 

[Ratbert]

I never had to ask with the Camaro but I also don't know if they balanced every time they rotated its tires. I always assumed they did. You live and learn. Thanks.

Are you sure about that? That'd be like doing an alignment when there's no indication that anything is out of assignment. It's just wasted time and money.

 

[sunset]

Are you sure about that? That'd be like doing an alignment when there's no indication that anything is out of assignment. It's just wasted time and money.

No, I am not sure. I only remember when I first noticed the weights years ago (visible on the outside of the Camaro rims), asking the shop about them, and being told it was for rebalancing. Since I did not specifically ask for a rebalancing (and did not even know to ask), I took it as something they automatically did with each rotation. Maybe they actually said that to me, maybe I incorrectly inferred it. Maybe they billed it as a separate item and I accepted it. Usually, I ask enough questions to get it straight in my head, but this was years ago. The more I now learn, the more I doubt with the passage of time of what I used to "know".

 

[Ratbert]

The spider gears? Same as when you turn a corner. The front and rear driveshafts are connected solid when in 4wd, they can only spin at the same speed. Being that you have 2 open difs, all 4 tires can still turn at different speeds (as they do when turning). You could run 4 different sized tires, although I'm guessing handling would be terrible.

I was under the impression that the front and rear are locked 50 / 50 when in 4wd. Maybe that's incorrect?

With open diffs a mismatch on a single axle will be dealt with by one wheel spinning faster than the other and the diff simply handling it.

Maybe I don't understand enough about our transfer cases, but if one tire is sufficiently larger than the other three then that axle is spinning faster than the other axle. I was under the impression that our transfer case wouldn't deal with that well. Maybe it can?

 

[Zandcwhite]

I was under the impression that the front and rear are locked 50 / 50 when in 4wd. Maybe that's incorrect?

With open diffs a mismatch on a single axle will be dealt with by one wheel spinning faster than the other and the diff simply handling it.

Maybe I don't understand enough about our transfer cases, but if one tire is sufficiently larger than the other three then that axle is spinning faster than the other axle. I was under the impression that our transfer case wouldn't deal with that well. Maybe it can?

The drive shafts will spin at the same speed even if all 4 axle shafts are spinning at different speeds because the spider gears...theoretically. The problem is when there's too much difference between the front and rear which is why you get binding when turning sharp on high traction surfaces in 4wd. If only 1 tire was different in size, and again we aren't talking running 3x42s and a 29" spare, the spiders in that axle can easily make up for the difference in speed. Furthermore, we probably aren't talking high speeds or high traction in this scenario or why wouldn't you be in 2wd, where the fad even eliminates the spider gear involvement up front and now you're just looking at rear axle spiders?

 

[Ratbert]

No, I am not sure. I only remember when I first noticed the weights years ago (visible on the outside of the Camaro rims), asking the shop about them, and being told it was for rebalancing. Since I did not specifically ask for a rebalancing (and did not even know to ask), I took it as something they automatically did with each rotation. Maybe they actually said that to me, maybe I incorrectly inferred it. Maybe they billed it as a separate item and I accepted it. Usually, I ask enough questions to get it straight in my head, but this was years ago. The more I now learn, the more I doubt with the passage of time of what I used to "know".

I'm guessing that you might have mentioned something about feeling a shake. That's a common symptom of an out of balance tire/wheel.

 

[Ratbert]

The drive shafts will spin at the same speed even if all 4 axle shafts are spinning at different speeds because the spider gears...theoretically. The problem is when there's too much difference between the front and rear which is why you get binding when turning sharp on high traction surfaces in 4wd. If only 1 tire was different in size, and again we aren't talking running 3x42s and a 29" spare, the spiders in that axle can easily make up for the difference in speed. Furthermore, we probably aren't talking high speeds or high traction in this scenario or why wouldn't you be in 2wd, where the fad even eliminates the spider gear involvement up front and now you're just looking at rear axle spiders?

Sounds reasonable. Note that some Wranglers (e.g. 392s) don't do 2wd unless you use something like a Tazer.

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