Question on 1st Tire Rotation

[Willys41]

I didn't know that. So, I infer this full-size spare is consigned by the manufacturer to be for temporary use on pick-up trucks.




I gotta ask... In your 50 years of doing this, of the ones that had a full-size spare, were most of these spares hidden away in the trunk thus perhaps easy to exclude in the 4-tire theology? If any of your vehicles were Jeeps with the obvious full-size spare in view, what was your reasoning to exclude this tire from rotation? Was it just a habit you got into?

All kinds.
I worked 50 years as a mechanic and have rotated thousands of tires.
I have had 100s and 100s of customers come into the shop complaining of a noise coming from there car or truck thinking it was a bearing or something serious and it was noise coming from there tires.
I learned early on to avoid the uneven tire wear and noise was to cross (X) rotate.
I did what ever the customer wanted put most of the time just the 4 on the ground.
As for my jeep I have had 3 different tire sizes in 27k miles. I am now on 37s and now with my new f250 and goose neck trailer I will be luck to put 2000 miles a year on the jeep and have no desire to lift that heavy spare on and off and for the f250 no way.
I have two aluminum floor jacks. One on opposet corners and in 20 to 30 minutes I am done.

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[BDinTX]

Reason to do a 4 tire rotation:
You like the tires you have and plan to get them again. When the time comes, buy 3 new ones, keep the best "old tire" as the spare.

Reason to do a 5 tire rotation:
If you plan to change tires and want to maximize how much use you get from them. It also extends the time before you need to buy a full set by 20% as noted above.

Regarding rotation pattern:
On a (primarily) rear wheel drive vehicle:

• The rear tires are pushing. From the perspective of where the rubber meets the road, the tread blocks wear at the rear. They are also being stretched towards the front of the vehicle.
• Conversely, the front tires are being pushed. That means the front of the tread block is taking the most wear. They are being stretched back to the rear.

Keep rubbing an eraser on paper in the same direction and observe how it deforms.

Somebody mentioned previously the proper rotation pattern (for a reverseable tire) is a rearward cross. This is because of the above points. When a rear tire is moved to the front location, the change in forces helps even out wear on the individual tread blocks. This is sometimes referred to as letting the tire rest.

Once the tires have rested in the front, they can be crossed to the rear on the other side. That helps with maintaining uniform wear and helps counteract the increased shoulder wear seen on steer tires.

A 5 tire rotation should still be a rearward cross!
The front left tire just makes a pit stop in the spare position before going to the right rear.

TPMS:
There are 3 TPMS receivers on the body of the vehicle. They compare the timing of the radio signals from the various tires. It's like direction finding an RF signal. I don't know if the TPMS sensor in the spare transmits all the time or not but the system can tell that it's not rotating.

Fun observation:
We have a 2020 and 2021 Jeep with incompatible TPMS systems. When I swap tires they both show -- for pressure on all four tires. If we drive both Jeeps somewhere, my Jeep will pick up the tire pressure of my wifes Jeep following behind me.

 

[4xFUN]

Damn, this thread has really gotten into the weeds...

For 'technically' the most even tire wear with the least cupping/feathering and lowest increase in tire noise, a 4 tire rotation every 5,000 miles is ideal.

To get the longest mileage from tires, a 5 tire rotation (as long as all tires/wheels are the identical) is your best option. Recommendations between rotation may vary from 5,000 to 10,000 miles.

I have and will continue to stick with the 4 tire 'rear-cross' rotation every 5,000 miles. I always have even tread ware and very little increase in tire noise over the life of the tire.

 

[swampflyer]

On every jeep I have owned I always rotate 4 on the ground. Spare is spare and to be used only as a spare until you fix the flat one. Then when I buy new tires I purchase four and then add the spare(which usually has never been used). Put one of the new purchased tires as a new spare. Never had any kind of dry rot etc. Since 1978.

 

[sunset]

Nena Barlow has a few tips.

Great video but watching her second method of hoisting the 37" tire I notice she doesn't have nuts to squash. Just watch how that tire grinds. Ow! LOL.

 

[roaniecowpony]

A contract harvest farmer has four fields one acre each, that he was hired to harvest. He harvests the fields and finds out it took 100 gallons of fuel to do all four. The farm owner asks the contractor to harvest one more, identical one acre field. How many more gallons of fuel does he need?

@Tredsdert is required to sit in the corner and think about his tire rotation plan.

 

[2nd 392]

A contract harvest farmer has four fields one acre each, that he was hired to harvest. He harvests the fields and finds out it took 100 gallons of fuel to do all four. The farm owner asks the contractor to harvest one more, identical one acre field. How many more gallons of fuel does he need?

@Tredsdert is required to sit in the corner and think about his tire rotation plan.

25, if he had it with him, and hadn’t been carrying it around in the back of his truck long enough to go bad, then when he went to replace the particular fuel he needed it had been discontinued…… so he used the new mismatched or the old fuel he paid for and it damaged his equipment.

You used @Tredsdert and “plans” in context …. interesting… what a unique thought

 

[Zandcwhite]

But why, please.

It's been said already, 20% more life out of a set of tires and if you upgrade to larger tires or even change to a more aggressive AT or MT the spare still matches and doesn't look stupid. As far as even wear, 4 or 5 tire rotations will do the same, unless you actually need the spare toward the end of the service life of the other 4. This difference in diameter could be very significant, especially if you run a more aggressive tire that starts with a huge tread depth. Either works, On a Wrangler 5 makes more sense.

 

[Ratbert]

All kinds.
I worked 50 years as a mechanic and have rotated thousands of tires.
I have had 100s and 100s of customers come into the shop complaining of a noise coming from there car or truck thinking it was a bearing or something serious and it was noise coming from there tires.
I learned early on to avoid the uneven tire wear and noise was to cross (X) rotate.
I did what ever the customer wanted put most of the time just the 4 on the ground.
As for my jeep I have had 3 different tire sizes in 27k miles. I am now on 37s and now with my new f250 and goose neck trailer I will be luck to put 2000 miles a year on the jeep and have no desire to lift that heavy spare on and off and for the f250 no way.
I have two aluminum floor jacks. One on opposet corners and in 20 to 30 minutes I am done.

The truth comes out. It's not what makes the most sense for the Jeep or your wallet. It's what's easiest for you.

 

[Ratbert]

On every jeep I have owned I always rotate 4 on the ground. Spare is spare and to be used only as a spare until you fix the flat one. Then when I buy new tires I purchase four and then add the spare(which usually has never been used). Put one of the new purchased tires as a new spare. Never had any kind of dry rot etc. Since 1978.

You've never had a desire to put on different tires? Tire manufacturers haven't come out with significant improvements before the next tire change?

 

[NewbJLUOwner]

So, I'm about to take my new Jeep in for its first complimentary oil change and tire rotation.

I happened to ask them if they rotate all five tires or just the four on the ground. They replied it's my choice, 4-tire rotation or 5-tire rotation.

Well, I can easily think up why I might want a 5-tire rotation but the fact that they offer a choice instead of a recommendation made me wonder if there are owners who opt for only a 4-tire rotation, and why.

I notice the 2024 Wrangler Owners manual only mentions the 4-tire rotation:

Seems odd to me that they do not discuss a 5-tire rotation.

I read in another thread of someone who did the 4-tire rotation and wanted to change to 5-tire rotation but was told if his four tires had, say, 20,000 miles on them, it was too late to bring in the 5th tire. Too late? Okay, but does that consign the 5th tire to serve only as a temporary spare?

Anyway, I wonder is anyone has wisdom about any of this, 4-tire versus 5-tire rotation, and maybe why the manual would only advise on 4-tire rotation.

Thanks.

Hey there
2022 JLURD @ 38,500 miles
My personal choice has been to let dealer do the 5 tire rotation during the 3 free Oil Change & Rotation schedule of Jeep Wave program. This lasted until approximately 22, 500 miles, the last 16,000 miles I've decided to only rotate 4 tires now. I'm making the spare full time. When I eventually replace tires, I will be replacing 4 only. My spare has excellent tread left.
PS> i do recommend writing with chalk on your tires (example LF to LR/whatever works for you) before rotation
This also ensured rotation was actually done
Enjoy your Jeep

 

[2nd 392]

You've never had a desire to put on different tires? Tire manufacturers haven't come out with significant improvements before the next tire change?

I wonder how many will have a KO2 spare that never was on the ground when they need tires and KO2’s are discontinued ? Didn’t Cooper discontinue one too ?

 

[gato]

Late to the party, but the advantages of doing a 5-tire rotation are overwhelming.

1 - Extend the life of your set of tires by 20%.
2 - You can do tire rotations by safely lifting only on corner at a time in your garage.
3 - If you have a flat tire, your spare tire will have the same diameter as the tire it's replacing. If you have a nearly worn out tire that gets a flat and puts a never used spare, you will cause different wheel speeds which can overheat and wear out your diff and transfer case if you are in 4WD.
4 - Tires have both a wear and age limit. If you don't use it, you lose it. After about 6 years, most tires are showing signs of drying and perform worst.
5 - 5 Tire rotation makes sure your spare TPMS is in good working order and that the lug nuts on the spare are not seized or have a wheel lock that was lost. Last thing you need is getting a flat and not being able to get the spare tire off.
6 - 5 or six years from now, when it is time to buy new tires, you may want to go with another brand, another size, etc. If you didn't use your spare you wasted it.

 

[sunset]

OP here.

I'm very grateful for all of the responses to my initial and subsequent questions. This has been very enlightening for me as well as interesting in hearing what different people have to say about the 4-tire method and the 5-tire method. It's like what a friend told me at a dinner party last night when of course I had to bring up this topic and hear from non-Jeepers. He said there are good points to each method and I am seeing that as I read through the seven pages of responses here.

Wow, seven pages. May I gently say that I simultaneously posted the same original question on the Jeep392 site and I got only four responses. But I realize that 392s are a category of JL while this site covers them all which means a greater audience. I learned that if I need several fast responses, as I did in this instance, this site is the place to post my questions.

So, I read through this thread at least twice, noting when a method seemed practical, when it seemed economical, when it seemed a choice was based on intuition more than some other idea, etc.

I had an appointment to take my Jeep in today to the local dealer. My decision was to have them perform the 5-tire rotation. Among my reasons for this choice were these three, numbered below but in no particular order:

1) The thrift of using the spare to spread out the wear among five tires to make them last longer. I like that.
2) The fact that my spare has an identical rim as the other four. Had it been a non-identical rim as with other vehicles, I very likely would have chosen the 4-tire method rather than have an odd rim on the ground, as @Apexcars so clearly put it:

Your truck will look kinda funny for 4/5ths of the time while the spare works it's way back around to the spot up under the bed.

3) @Ratbert recommended it.


I thought what @BDinTX wrote was imaginatively stated and will be more memorable ongoing than any diagram has been for me:

A 5 tire rotation should still be a rearward cross!
The front left tire just makes a pit stop in the spare position before going to the right rear.

Before I went to the dealer today, I removed my fancy conical wheel locks and put on the original lug nuts, just in case he uses a power tool to put them back on, not taking any chances on those conicals. I also had to remove my spare tire cover, knowing what a chore it is to put it back on with its tight fit and strong elastic. When I arrived there, the Service Advisor said they always do the 4-tire rotation until I nicely squawked about what I learned on this website and then she nicely acceded that they are happy to do the 5-tire method. I made sure she wrote that on the order and to make doubly sure I also told the guy apparently doing the work that I wanted the 5-tire method. And, because I worked for a large corporation where one hand didn't always know what the other hand was doing, I also placed the 5-tire diagram on my steering wheel to be seen by whichever tech actually gets my car. I had already told them this was my first time so I will likely annoy them with questions until I get into the rhythm. They were cool.

She noted their computer had me scheduled for a first oil change reminder for June 2025 which is well over a year from when I took possession of the Jeep in February 2024. She had no explanation for that, blaming generic computer programming.

I put my IGLA into Service Mode and went to read a book in their waiting room. I had left the exhaust baffle ON on purpose and thus from this windowless waiting room I could hear my 392 fire up when they were ready to move it into place to begin. That was fun. About 45 minutes later, all done.

So they changed the oil at 5,056 miles and 8 months, updated my screen to reflect 100% on the oil, rotated the tires, and performed a complimentary multi-point check which they said included the recommended CV/Universal joints. Good to go.

The final paperwork she gave me had typing that stated, "Recommend tire inspection and rotation every 6 months or 7,500 miles." I questioned why 7,500 miles when the manual said every 10,000 miles and we know her technician had said every 5,000 miles. She again blamed computer programmed text.

Heck, the three mileage limits are probably ALL true if this allows me to pick which one sounds good to me. Pretty sloppy maybe and it sounds like a consensus of truth is carried only verbally.

Except they stickered my window to come back in April 2025. Six months from now. So, the calendar decides. No surprise there.

I didn't chalk the tires before going but I know they did the 5-tire method because my unused spare still has the red dot on the sidewall when the others did not, allowing me to confirm its new placement on the Right Rear. Also, what was now my spare had small rocks embedded in the tread when my unused spare of course had none. I removed the rocks on this "new" spare before putting my tire cover back on so maybe that will be a way to confirm each time they rotate, ha, to always check the new spare for embedded rocks that weren't there before.

I found the exhaust baffle had been turned OFF. She gave me a coupon for a free car wash at Brown Bear, first asking me if I would use it. I told her my 392 has to be handwashed but I have another car. I'll give it to my brother.

Oh, no balance weights on my rims like my Camaro has, at least not on the outside, and I forgot to inquire about that for these 4WD Jeeps.

Thanks again, everybody, for your input and advice.

 

[2nd 392]

@sunset — you chose well - no fault, no computer, no mileage to remember, no reminder sticker, just do them every 5K mi.
Keep fresh oil in that Hemi. See Hemi lifter/cam issues, and turn the damn MDS off so the lifters aren’t constantly collapsing and uncollapsing, especially in town…..
your ears will thank you too.

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