(Yet Another) Lift/Spring Advice Thread

[OminousSkitter]

@AnnDee4444 , I mentioned I'd start a new thread to not hijack the Spring Rate thread.

I am not happy with my current setup and am looking to change something to help address my problems. I don't need extra height (and don't want to look like I'm on stilts), so my choices are fairly limited.

My setup:

• I have a 2-door sport with 4-door/hard top/steel bumper rubicon shocks and springs (can't recall right off hand, but something like 61/2 and 91/2 for ending part numbers);
• I have an aluminum mid-width bumper with a winch in the front, stock plastic bumper in the rear (looking at changing to a Rock Hard aluminum at some point), rubicon takeoff tires (285/70R17 KO2) on OEM wheels;
• I have a Maximus-3 roof rack, but I don't carry tons of weight on it—typically nothing at all or something like a paddle board (35 lbs) or a 5th tire for tire change over;
• Empty, my headlights are aimed lower than they need to be;
• My version of overlanding is definitely not overloading. Aside from a cooler (less than 50 lbs), water (at most 7 gal, often less), and a sleeping pad I use while camping (21 lbs), everything else is what I bring on my back when backpacking (tent, sleeping bag, different sleeping pad, stove).

My problem:

• Yet with this much weight, it's enough that everyone flashes their brights at me at night (never get a single flash empty);
• If I use a hitch basket and keep it well under the tongue weight, it's worse with very noticeable squat and people not just flashing brights but their 50" light bars at me.

I honestly don't see how this little weight is causing this much squat (it's less than if I had an adult in the back). I run empty during the shoulder seasons and most of winter, so I don't think spacers are appropriate. I don't think airbags are right because that basically means riding with them inflated all summer and some winter. Airbags are probably the right choice if it was just when I use the hitch basket (rarely), but keeping them constantly inflated ~4 months a year doesn't seem right to me.

Since I don't need extra height, I've been looking at the OME 2/1". I've read that the heavy version is definitely stiff/harsher when empty, but the medium looks like it's roughly the rear spring rate I already have. I'd consider the Clayton 1.5", but people who install it on 2 doors report a lot more than 1.5" lift. Is it possibly my rear springs just need to be replaced because they are not functioning properly? Any advice is appreciated.

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[AnnDee4444]

I'm actually in the same boat... nobody makes a small lift for a 2-door, and I'd need about $280 in Teraflex spacers to achieve a 1.5" front/ 1.0" rear lift... not worth it for stacked spacers in my opinion.

I can guess that you might have luck with XR 3.6/2.0 rear springs, which may be a slightly stiffer rate to compensate for the XR's heavier spare (unconfirmed). With your roof rack it might be just the right height.

For the front... the 2-door has a stiffer front rate than the 4-door, which I'm guessing is around 137.5 lb/in per the posts here & here. This is coincidently pretty close to the JT rate, which I've read is 134-141 lb/in (might need to verify this). Obviously the JT is heavier, so I'll guess that either the JT Sport/Overland/Rubicon front springs could achieve a 1.5" front lift on a 2-door, while maintaining factory-like ride frequencies (for ride quality).

If Jeep would make a 2-door XR, this would be much simpler.

 

[River City Offroad]

If the main reason for changing is your getting flashed, I would just adjust your headlights down when you're loaded and then back up when you're unloaded. It only takes a couple of minutes to do and if you're happy with the way the Jeep rides and drives other than getting flashed, its definitely the simplest solution vs experimenting with coil springs and wasting time/money on that path that may never produce the results you're looking for.

 

[ScottieGfunk]

Maybe double check that you have the rear 91/2 springs? I put those springs in my Sport (4dr) and even loaded down with camping gear, I get very little squat. I ordered the springs new from BAM Wholesale instead of dealing with trying to locate the right springs used. Also, make sure your Rubicon shocks are working properly, mine blew out shortly after install and I went with a set of Bilstein 5100's. Much better ride.

 

[OminousSkitter]

So just looking at simple math, a spring rate is lbs/in. The 91/2 springs are stiffer, so by the rate chart I'm assuming they're ~175. There are two springs, so evenly loaded, completely on the rear axle, 350lbs should lower the rear by 1". I guess that's plausible—I haven't measured it—but it definitely seems like I get more than 0.5" squat with less than 175 lbs in the back; 7 gallons of water (~60 lbs) on the driver's side visually makes the rear bumper unlevel... maybe ~0.3" would cause that much of a visual difference? I understand simple math doesn't work, as suspension an entire system and loading the back will influence the front, but it should be reasonable for an approximation.

If the main reason for changing is your getting flashed, I would just adjust your headlights down when you're loaded and then back up when you're unloaded.

That's something I can easily do when I use the hitch basket and is better than airbags when I use it. Changing it all the time would get annoying though (e.g. driving to a spot with camping gear, setting up a basecamp, and driving to different trailheads empty). As for liking how it drives, it seems like I have to go unreasonably slow on washboard (25 or less) or it feels like I have no control/traction. Otherwise performance matches expectations given it's a Jeep.

Maybe double check that you have the rear 91/2 springs?

I'm about 95% positive the stickers when I bought them (used, supposedly less than 300 miles) were 91/2 in the rear; I am not positive on the fronts being 61/2. But that's why I wonder if maybe something is just wrong with my rear springs.

 

[Reinen]

FWIW, I have the OME heavy load springs. They're not harsh when unburdened, just a little firm. It's actually nice on-road but it would be a bit too firm off-road. They're spectacular for burdened off-road travel.

However it sounds like I do wheel with more weight than you.

 

[OminousSkitter]

FWIW, I have the OME heavy load springs. They're not harsh when unburdened, just a little firm. It's actually nice on-road but it would be a bit too firm off-road. They're spectacular for burdened off-road travel.

However it sounds like I do wheel with more weight than you.

Thanks. Talking with you is what first made me lean towards the OME lift. I'm waiting until it warms up next June to do anything, but I started questioning when I saw that the spring rates for the medium kit were similar to OEM. And then the more I read about people saying things like "very little squat with the OEM Rubicon suspension", and I wonder if something is just wrong with mine. I at least believe I should be able to put my rear seat back in, put an adult in the back, and not have to adjust my headlights for the increased squat.

 

[Reinen]

Thanks. Talking with you is what first made me lean towards the OME lift. I'm waiting until it warms up next June to do anything, but I started questioning when I saw that the spring rates for the medium kit were similar to OEM. And then the more I read about people saying things like "very little squat with the OEM Rubicon suspension", and I wonder if something is just wrong with mine. I at least believe I should be able to put my rear seat back in, put an adult in the back, and not have to adjust my headlights for the increased squat.

I dunno what they're talking about. I had the OEM Rubicon suspension.
Did I have a squat problem?
Did I bash my bump stops if I wasn't careful?
Did people flash high beams at me?
Did OME resolve it?

See for yourself.

OEM Rubicon Suspension:

OME 2" Heavy Load Suspension:

And I'm very likely carrying more cargo on the OME.

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