Will the BEV J70 be scrapped?

[Zandcwhite]

You are under the assumption that Wrangler people are chasing massive torque, I am coming from a long line of Wranglers, power was never something I ever looked for, I'm not sure how many Wrangler people really care about power, especially when that power comes at the price of complications, and lack of service.

The 4xe powertrain cannot be fixed by independent mechanics, or owners, so don't discount the expense of dealership visits. I got one very rarely took my Wranglers back to the dealership, this 4xe so far the juice is worth the squeeze.

Power was never an issue with the 4.0 YJ or TJ or 3.8 JK, or these 3.6 JLs.

Batteries are failing quite often on these 4xe if you haven't kept up, even replacement batteries are failing, then there is the common heater failures, recalls etc,

What you are failing to realize is people that shop for efficiency, don't care about power, they are about savings at the gas pumps, which is something 4xe does not do if you don't charge it. If I was in the market for power over mpg, I would buy a 392, as it is gas cost $6 a gallon, vs electric at $0-$0.8 cents a kWh for me.

And for the most part in the US electricity cost as much as gas.

Not in the blue states. We have the highest gas taxes in the nation and massively discounted residential EV charging rates. 9 cents per kilowatt hour or <$1.50 to charge a 4xe vs $5/gallon which will get you the same 20-25 miles. If you don't care about power and you're just liking for efficiency you should be in almost anything but a JL wether its a 4xe or not. And if you didn't feel the 3.8L was under powered you're probably the 1st person I've ever heard say that. Like I've said 50 time already, I don't think anyone should by the 4xe with the plan of never plugging it in, but to pretend that's the only advantage is crazy. It's tired with the most efficient JLU as far as mpg... while being tied with the most powerful JLU when it comes to torque. And if you factor in federal and local tax incentives it's the cheapest one I can buy right now (yes the federal incentives will soon go away). I don't think anyone is buying the 4xe without planning to charge it.

Sponsored

 

[Mifsuud]

You are under the assumption that Wrangler people are chasing massive torque, I am coming from a long line of Wranglers, power was never something I ever looked for, I'm not sure how many Wrangler people really care about power, especially when that power comes at the price of complications, and lack of service.

The 4xe powertrain cannot be fixed by independent mechanics, or owners, so don't discount the expense of dealership visits. I got one very rarely took my Wranglers back to the dealership, this 4xe so far the juice is worth the squeeze.

Power was never an issue with the 4.0 YJ or TJ or 3.8 JK, or these 3.6 JLs.

Batteries are failing quite often on these 4xe if you haven't kept up, even replacement batteries are failing, then there is the common heater failures, recalls etc,

What you are failing to realize is people that shop for efficiency, don't care about power, they are about savings at the gas pumps, which is something 4xe does not do if you don't charge it. If I was in the market for power over mpg, I would buy a 392, as it is gas cost $6 a gallon, vs electric at $0-$0.8 cents a kWh for me.

And for the most part in the US electricity cost as much as gas.

Every post by you is some variation of "efficiency" which you mean to equal "fuel economy." Fuel economy doesnt matter to me, nor most Wrangler owners. The "efficiency" I enjoy from my 4xe is not going to the gas station. That's time, which matters more to me than mpg. And increased mpg doesn't help because vehicles with high mpg have tiny gas tanks so you still have to go to the damn gas station just as often. Offer a Corolla with a 40 gallon tank and I might pay attention.

The 3.8 and 3.6 are sorely lacking in torque. Horsepower isn't nearly as important offroad, acceleration is and that's all torque.

You state: "The 4xe powertrain cannot be fixed by independent mechanics, or owners." The high voltage part of the 4xe cannot be repaired by independant, and often dealership, mechanics. The 2.0 engine and everything else can be. Are you claiming you can't replace axles on a 4xe outside the dealership? Or differential? That's all powertrain.

There's no fuel efficient Wrangler. Likely there never will be.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Threads involving EV's tend to degenerate just as this one has. People who like EV's have a way of ignoring the problems (like what problems) and those who hate them would like the first group to drive off into the sunset never to be heard again. who disregard the many advantages of a BEV.

FTFY.

This will be more of a general take (aka, long winded spew) on all EVs - since this thread has several posts relating to all/any EVs - I won't be a debate about the political aspects, funding, tax breaks, subsidies, it's all a bunch of nonsense and we all know who's doing what

I come from a long run of owning quite a few vehicles, being a real "gear head", into cars, running track events, used to turn my own wrench quite a bit, had some killer vehicles - a few Vettes and Mustangs, lots of convertibles, notable tuned vehicles like my 4th Gen Supra (~850HP).

I'm, umm, older and while I'm in the tech space 30+, and have very often been an early adopter, I was not convinced about EVs. In 2021, we got our previous 4xe, felt the PHEV was a good option to test the EV waters (and we wanted a Wrangler), now 4 years later we're on our 2nd 4xe ('24 Rubi) and our 2nd BEV (BMW iX), because, holy shit, when the BEV is a good option, it's a spectacular option.

Here's what I will say, loud and proud: if we did not have home charging, we would not own an EV (B or PH ...) That's the real game changer, that's what makes it fantastic, usually less cost than an ICE equivalent (again, more specifically BEVs), fantastically convenient. Relying on DCFC wouldn't be a price break (might even be more), and now you're back to the gas station model - nope.

Sure, maybe if you had a standard destination (like an office), an L2 might be fine, and then you could just top off at a DCFC for a trip as needed.

Anyway, BEVs, with home charging, assuming no use cases where they're not optimal (something like long range towing comes to mind), are fantastic. They're inexpensive (again, see my previous caveats) to operate, they're incredibly quick - the immediate torque, no transmission losses - quiet, they're super efficient with their power source (vs. gas), they can idle for days even in an enclosed space, some can provide power out, they optimize the interior space (due to a lack of ICE hardware, gas tanks, transmission tunnels), they're mechanically much simpler - barely use brakes, very little maintenance (ex : oil changes) - the super low COG makes them safer.

We're about to make a big "life move" and if an ICE turns out to be a better option, we'd be fine with that, but if it accommodates a no hassle ownership of another BEV, we are down with that.

(The next ride could be another iX, probably an M70, or a Gravity, a Scout - or a X5 M60, or an M-car of some sort ... maybe even a scooter )

 

[alphawolff]

News reports today are that the $7500 EV tax credit will sunset this year and a $200 fee will be charged for all EV's. The fee will be reduced to $100 for hybrids, but it did not specify if this only applies to plug in Hybrids. Would this kill off the 4xe?

Yeah. I heard they stopped slotting grand cherokee 4XEs into build queues already due to the removal of the tax credit. Neither 4xe model will sell without that tax credit. The BEV charger won't sell without it, either.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Yeah. I heard they stopped slotting grand cherokee 4XEs into build queues already due to the removal of the tax credit. Neither 4xe model will sell without that tax credit. The BEV charger won't sell without it, either.

The 4xe will likely see a drop in sales, but as usual your post reads like an anti-EV post from someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Even under the last administration the tax credit for cars was capped at <$55k msrp. The electric charger has a starting msrp of $59k. It was never going to qualify for the tax credit but now it won't sell without it? Logical.

 

[alphawolff]

The 4xe will likely see a drop in sales, but as usual your post reads like an anti-EV post from someone who has no idea what they are talking about. Even under the last administration the tax credit for cars was capped at <$55k msrp. The electric charger has a starting msrp of $59k. It was never going to qualify for the tax credit but now it won't sell without it? Logical.

They get the full $7500 rebate when taken as a lease. The tax credit has been limited to ~3500 for awhile how. Leasing is how the majority of these units have been sold. I'd wager 90% of total sales were dealership employee leases originally. We were able to get them for under $300/month with 0 down.

Every single charger we've gotten has had an MSRP of 62k+, including the one with 8 miles currently broken in my stall. (Don't buy one of these)

A solid 70% of my workload these days are 4XEs/Pachies. I happen to be the electrical guy and live in SoCal, so it's a double whammy with the amount I see. I have a pretty workable understanding of them.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Not in the blue states. We have the highest gas taxes in the nation and massively discounted residential EV charging rates. 9 cents per kilowatt hour or <$1.50 to charge a 4xe vs $5/gallon which will get you the same 20-25 miles. If you don't care about power and you're just liking for efficiency you should be in almost anything but a JL wether its a 4xe or not. And if you didn't feel the 3.8L was under powered you're probably the 1st person I've ever heard say that. Like I've said 50 time already, I don't think anyone should by the 4xe with the plan of never plugging it in, but to pretend that's the only advantage is crazy. It's tired with the most efficient JLU as far as mpg... while being tied with the most powerful JLU when it comes to torque. And if you factor in federal and local tax incentives it's the cheapest one I can buy right now (yes the federal incentives will soon go away). I don't think anyone is buying the 4xe without planning to charge it.

I was addressing where you claimed a PHEV not charged is like a regular HEV.

In a nutshell a HEV saves trips to the gas station because it's efficient compared to the none HEV version.

A PHEV not charged does not save on trips to the gas station, infact you would be visiting the gas station more than with the non PHEV version.

The PHEV basically substitute one fuel for another.

I had a 3.8 4:10 manual 2 door, I had no issues with it.

3.8 with other gearing and 4 door, automatic is a different story.

3.6 JK 4 door manual no issue, 3.6 JL 4 door AT also no issues with power.

 

[gato]

I have to push back on all the EV love that is unconditional around here. lets see...

- if you kill 25% of the battery just to get to your offroad place that means you have half a battery to play with.

- nearest charging station is almost certainly back in the city and not on the corners along the highway or small towns along the way, so now you have range anxiety

- tires and suspension blow out in half the time because of all the extra weight while youre out having fun, and if something does break there is zero chance of on-site repair.



just make sure you bring a generator and a bunch of gas i guess. There is a place for EVs and being out in the middle of nowhere aint it.

Like I said in my post. EVs have a single major drawback - the charging convenience and range limitations. Weight is only a factor for poor engineered vehicles. A Tesla Model 3 Performance weighs basically the same as a BMW M3 xDrive, costs about 1/2 and has beeter performance (go watch the Hagerty video by Camisa for details).

Everything else, a quad-motor or even dual-motor EV is basically perfect for off roading.

The longest off-road trail in America - the Rubicon Trail - is 22 miles. The benchmark should be making the Rubicon trail while using 75% of battery capacity in cold weather. It's hardly unachievable.

 

[Ratbert]

The longest off-road trail in America - the Rubicon Trail - is 22 miles.

The Rubicon might be the longest rock crawling trail, but it's definitely not the longest off road trail in America. The Trans-America Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Colorado Trail, etc. are orders of magnitude longer.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I was addressing where you claimed a PHEV not charged is like a regular HEV.

In a nutshell a HEV saves trips to the gas station because it's efficient compared to the none HEV version.

A PHEV not charged does not save on trips to the gas station, infact you would be visiting the gas station more than with the non PHEV version.

The PHEV basically substitute one fuel for another.

I had a 3.8 4:10 manual 2 door, I had no issues with it.

3.8 with other gearing and 4 door, automatic is a different story.

3.6 JK 4 door manual no issue, 3.6 JL 4 door AT also no issues with power.

If the 4xe specifically (since you can't acknowledge the prius anyway disproves your theory) gets the same fuel economy as the standard 2.0t, which is better than the 3.6L and signifcatly better than the 392, why are you at the gas station more often? Sure the tank is smaller than the standard 4dr, but the JL has the same tank and the same fuel economy. Now you're telling me there's no gain in efficiency if you don't plug it in and yet it's significantly quicker, has the same fuel economy and range, while being 1500lbs heavier and significantly larger than the 2dr? Sounds like that hybrid system is doing quite a lot even if you use it as an HEV (since you also can't acknowledge that likely nobody is doing that nor have I argued they should).

 

[Zandcwhite]

The Rubicon might be the longest rock crawling trail, but it's definitely not the longest off road trail in America. The Trans-America Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Colorado Trail, etc. are orders of magnitude longer.

It's not even the longest rock crawling trail in northern CA. The Dusy Ershim is 34 miles. Trails like the Trans-America trail can't be the benchmark as in reality they aren't a single trail but a combination of multiple trails and no vehicle ever made is doing it on a single tank of fuel (not that I think you were arguing that). The mojave road is 100 miles and I guarantee you could run the entire thing in a rivian right now (and there are chargers in Laughlin and Barstow at each end). The rivian didn't hold up well on the Rubicon but that was IFS/tie rod related not range. An EV built like a JL or even a Bronco with 300+ road miles would go anywhere I've ever been able to take any of our Jeeps over the years as their range is 240-250 miles on a good day and I've never had to add fuel on a trail.

 

[Ron Texas]

A solid 70% of my workload these days are 4XEs/Pachies. I happen to be the electrical guy and live in SoCal, so it's a double whammy with the amount I see. I have a pretty workable understanding of them.

It's not a problem. It's an opportunity.

 

[gato]

The Rubicon might be the longest rock crawling trail, but it's definitely not the longest off road trail in America. The Trans-America Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Colorado Trail, etc. are orders of magnitude longer.

Good point - I should have said the longest stretch of rock crawling. There are many much longer off-road road/trail combos.

Those of us in the Northeast US are lucky when we find a trail that is longer than 3 miles. Even the 4xe Hybrid can do those in electric mode. But yes, those wanting to do longer runs will not be a candidate for EVs any time soon.

 

[Pape]

It's not a problem. It's an opportunity.

To be a opportunity you need to be in a position to initiate change to capitalize and turn it in a opportunity. On paper the 4Xe is a great idea, in execution much less.

 

[BXFXJeep]

If the 4xe specifically (since you can't acknowledge the prius anyway disproves your theory) gets the same fuel economy as the standard 2.0t, which is better than the 3.6L and signifcatly better than the 392, why are you at the gas station more often? Sure the tank is smaller than the standard 4dr, but the JL has the same tank and the same fuel economy. Now you're telling me there's no gain in efficiency if you don't plug it in and yet it's significantly quicker, has the same fuel economy and range, while being 1500lbs heavier and significantly larger than the 2dr? Sounds like that hybrid system is doing quite a lot even if you use it as an HEV (since you also can't acknowledge that likely nobody is doing that nor have I argued they should).

The Prius is the only PHEV that gives about the same mpg as the HEV, t talked about this already.

But you keep harping about that.

Lol you now are comparing the 2 door Wrangler gas tank to the 4 door gas tank to somehow justify the loss of range of the 4 door is a none issue?

In simple terms for people that will read this, no the 4xe is not a HEV and you will get 15 mpg city driving, not HEV like mpg.

People already read nonsense like this thinking they will get HEV like mpg, even some people selling the 4xe is peddling this nonsense.

Sponsored