Will the BEV J70 be scrapped?

[Zandcwhite]

The Prius is the only PHEV that gives about the same mpg as the HEV.

But you keep harping about that.

Lol you now are comparing the 2 door Wrangler gas tank to the 4 door gas tank to somehow justify the loss of range of the 4 door is a none issue?

In simple terms for people that will read this, no the 4xe is not a HEV and you will get 15 mpg city driving, not HEV like mpg.

People already read nonsense like this thinking they will get HEV like mpg, even some people selling the 4xe is peddling this nonsense.

The prius is one of the only vehicle that exist that we can directly compare HEV and PHEV versions. Pointing out that the PHEV 4xe won't get prius HEV efficiency is pointless. The fact is the 4xe does get better efficiency than the standard model even with the 2.0t as their mpg is equal and it's significantly quicker while being heavier. That is more efficient use of the same fuel moving more weight quicker period. Even with the smaller tank it has better range than the only other model with 470 ftlbs. It likely has the same range on the freeway as the 3.6L with the larger tank. Sure if you're unconcerned with power and you'll never plug it in and you'll only use it for long roadtrips the 2.0t standard version is the better fit, but nobody ever said it wasn't. Nobody said the 4xe was the best Jeep for all uses. And nobody has ever said it would get prius level fuel economy.

After a quick search there's another vehicle available in HEV and PHEV variants. The kia niro The HEV has the same 104hp ice engine as the PHEV version. It has a combined fuel economy of 49mpg. It's electric motor is only 43hp. It has a range of up to 544 miles. The PHEV version gets an 83hp electric motor and a combined fuel economy of 48mpg if you never plug it in. A range of up to 510 miles. So much for your HEV vs PHEV generalizations. It's almost like the HEV version of the same vehicle gets the same efficiency as the PHEV because the charger isn't the difference. Like I said from the beginning you're assuming that all PHEVs are like the 4xe only adding power and the ability to charge/ swap one fuel source for another to an inefficient vehicle when in reality it's the same as an HEV version of the same vehicle. If an HEV JL existed it would be inefficient. If an HEV version of a Nissan Sentra existed it would still be efficient. It's not the HEV vs PHEV that makes or breaks efficiency its the overall vehicle design.

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[av8or]

The Rubicon might be the longest rock crawling trail, but it's definitely not the longest off road trail in America. The Trans-America Trail, Continental Divide Trail, Colorado Trail, etc. are orders of magnitude longer.

There have been many Rivians that have completed the Trans-America trail……without generators. According to many in this thread that is impossible. Education is key and important.

 

[Zandcwhite]

There have been many Rivians that have completed the Trans-America trail……without generators. According to many in this thread that is impossible. Education is key and important.

I don't think anyone specifically stated that trail was impossible in an EV. It would take a lot of planning and charging time but it is doable. You'd be hard pressed to find any trail you couldn't make work in an EV with 400 miles of range but some would be much more difficult do to charging detours and time.

 

[alphawolff]

To be a opportunity you need to be in a position to initiate change to capitalize and turn it in a opportunity. On paper the 4Xe is a great idea, in execution much less.

On paper the 4XE makes zero sense, even for its intended purpose. The whole point of a hybrid is to make efficient, zero emission vehicles. Trying to make a 3 ton literal brick-on-wheels 'efficient' is hilarious.

 

[Pape]

On paper the 4XE makes zero sense, even for its intended purpose. The whole point of a hybrid is to make efficient, zero emission vehicles. Trying to make a 3 ton literal brick-on-wheels 'efficient' is hilarious.

Than I guess we have a hold my beer moment with the Hummer EV

 

[Zandcwhite]

Than I guess we have a hold my beer moment with the Hummer EV

It's still inefficient using a ton of power per mile. It's got a huge battery pack to achieve the range it does but that doesn't mean its efficient. That's like saying a semi is efficient because it can go 1k+ miles between fuel stops... with twin 100 gallon diesel tanks.

 

[alphawolff]

Than I guess we have a hold my beer moment with the Hummer EV

The fact that thing even exists is peak irony. Lmao

 

[Pape]

It's still inefficient using a ton of power per mile. It's got a huge battery pack to achieve the range it does but that doesn't mean its efficient. That's like saying a semi is efficient because it can go 1k+ miles between fuel stops... with twin 100 gallon diesel tanks.

Well I know something the wrangler is efficient at: the smile per mile

 

[BXFXJeep]

The prius is one of the only vehicle that exist that we can directly compare HEV and PHEV versions. Pointing out that the PHEV 4xe won't get prius HEV efficiency is pointless. The fact is the 4xe does get better efficiency than the standard model even with the 2.0t as their mpg is equal and it's significantly quicker while being heavier. That is more efficient use of the same fuel moving more weight quicker period. Even with the smaller tank it has better range than the only other model with 470 ftlbs. It likely has the same range on the freeway as the 3.6L with the larger tank. Sure if you're unconcerned with power and you'll never plug it in and you'll only use it for long roadtrips the 2.0t standard version is the better fit, but nobody ever said it wasn't. Nobody said the 4xe was the best Jeep for all uses. And nobody has ever said it would get prius level fuel economy.

After a quick search there's another vehicle available in HEV and PHEV variants. The kia niro The HEV has the same 104hp ice engine as the PHEV version. It has a combined fuel economy of 49mpg. It's electric motor is only 43hp. It has a range of up to 544 miles. The PHEV version gets an 83hp electric motor and a combined fuel economy of 48mpg if you never plug it in. A range of up to 510 miles. So much for your HEV vs PHEV generalizations. It's almost like the HEV version of the same vehicle gets the same efficiency as the PHEV because the charger isn't the difference. Like I said from the beginning you're assuming that all PHEVs are like the 4xe only adding power and the ability to charge/ swap one fuel source for another to an inefficient vehicle when in reality it's the same as an HEV version of the same vehicle. If an HEV JL existed it would be inefficient. If an HEV version of a Nissan Sentra existed it would still be efficient. It's not the HEV vs PHEV that makes or breaks efficiency its the overall vehicle design.

Kia Niro like the Prius started life as an HEV, mpg savings is built into the hybrid system, which means their PHEV share the very same gas sipping hybrid system as the HEV. Pretty much any PHEV built off a HEV will be gas sippers like their HEV siblings, but HEV and PHEV serve two very different purposes.

The likes of the 4xe started life as a gas guzzler, then they took that gas guzzler engine in it's entirety, and added an electric engine to the same ole ZF transmission, and another upfront on the engine. That means the 4xe like design at it's core has no gas savings, yea sure you get insane power over the regular gas only version, but when people think HEV they think mpg savings, not same ole gas guzzling like mpg. The 4xe can also save some gas with it's annoying extended stop/start behaviour.

That is why driving the 4xe without charging it doesn't make it anything close to HEV like.

So in a nutshell you get the very same mpg, but added power because the electric motors are always contributing power.

And pretty much all the ZF transmission PHEVs are like the 4xe, more power same mpg, not HEV like efficiency.

Don't get me wrong I love my 4xe, I think it's the best Wrangler for me, but I know exactly what the 4xe is and isn't

 

[Zandcwhite]

Kia Niro like the Prius started life as an HEV, mpg savings is built into the hybrid system, which means their PHEV share the very same gas sipping hybrid system as the HEV. Pretty much any PHEV built off a HEV will be gas sippers like their HEV siblings, but HEV and PHEV serve two very different purposes.

The likes of the 4xe started life as a gas guzzler, then they took that gas guzzler engine in it's entirety, and added an electric engine to the same ole ZF transmission, and another upfront on the engine. That means the 4xe like design at it's core has no gas savings, yea sure you get insane power over the regular gas only version, but when people think HEV they think mpg savings, not same ole gas guzzling like mpg. The 4xe can also save some gas with it's annoying extended stop/start behaviour.

That is why driving the 4xe without charging it doesn't make it anything close to HEV like.

So in a nutshell you get the very same mpg, but added power because the electric motors are always contributing power.

And pretty much all the ZF transmission PHEVs are like the 4xe, more power same mpg, not HEV like efficiency.

Again you're confusing efficient vehicle vs inefficient vehicle with HEV vs PHEV. No adding electric motors to inefficient vehicles won't make them efficient wether it an HEV or a PHEV. Adding or removing the plug in capability won't change the efficiency either. Obviously a vehicle designed to be efficient from the ground up will be efficient. A heavy, box shaped 4x4 will never be efficient. None of that has anything to do with HEV vs PHEV.

 

[Ratbert]

There have been many Rivians that have completed the Trans-America trail……without generators. According to many in this thread that is impossible. Education is key and important.

The generators in the power plants along the route somehow don't count as generators? Or maybe they used solar power for the entire 4k+ miles?

 

[BXFXJeep]

.

Again you're confusing efficient vehicle vs inefficient vehicle with HEV vs PHEV. No adding electric motors to inefficient vehicles won't make them efficient wether it an HEV or a PHEV. Adding or removing the plug in capability won't change the efficiency either. Obviously a vehicle designed to be efficient from the ground up will be efficient. A heavy, box shaped 4x4 will never be efficient. None of that has anything to do with HEV vs PHEV.

Again I was responding to your initial post where you said driving a 4xe like a HEV, and my point remains, you cannot drive a 4xe like a HEV, because it is not a HEV or HEV like.

This you are the one that brought in you PHEV Prius into the mix.

All I'm trying to convey to people that will read this stuff is the 4xe absolutely cannot be used like a HEV, you can be run a 4xe without charging it, but that is not HEV like, and running a 4xe without charging has it's pitfalls if you don't know what you are getting doing.

Regularly people will complain their 4xe is getting very poor mpg, because they got the impression they were buying a Hybrid, thinking it was HEV like, these people bought it because they were told they don't need to charge it, we have to be very clear what these 4xe are, and are not.

Buying a 4xe thinking you can drive it like a HEV is a very costly mistake.

 

[Zandcwhite]

.


Again I was responding to your initial post where you said driving a 4xe like a HEV, and my point remains, you cannot drive a 4xe like a HEV, because it is not a HEV or HEV like.

This you are the one that brought in you PHEV Prius into the mix.

All I'm trying to convey to people that will read this stuff is the 4xe absolutely cannot be used like a HEV, you can be run a 4xe without charging it, but that is not HEV like, and running a 4xe without charging has it's pitfalls if you don't know what you are getting doing.

Regularly people will complain their 4xe is getting very poor mpg, because they got the impression they were buying a Hybrid, thinking it was HEV like, these people bought it because they were told they don't need to charge it, we have to be very clear what these 4xe are, and are not.

Buying a 4xe thinking you can drive it like a HEV is a very costly mistake.

It's exactly like an HEV... with a plug in OPTION. It's in the name for Christ sake. It's not an HEV car. It will never get 50+ mpg even if you plug it in. It's still a jeep, but it is a hybrid electric drivetrain period. Even if never plugged in it will have added power, longer brake life, regenerative braking, etc like every hybrid wether plug in or not. Your the only person I've ever seen argue that to be an HEV it has to be fuel efficient. The new land cruiser is an HEV... and gets terrible fuel economy like every large 4x4 suv. You're flat wing period.

 

[av8or]

The generators in the power plants along the route somehow don't count as generators? Or maybe they used solar power for the entire 4k+ miles?

They were powered by unicorn farts silly.

 

[Ratbert]

They were powered by unicorn farts silly.

It was stupid of me to expect an intelligent response. Lesson learned.

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