Will the BEV J70 be scrapped?

[Ron Texas]

When the BEV/BEV with range extender plans for the Wrangler were revealed it was a different world. Since then Stellantis got a new CEO and the US a new president. The administration intends to loosen fuel efficiency rules and end subsidies for EV's. Even the separate rules for California are on the chopping block.

I really believe there is a change in plans coming. Just exactly what it is, I don't know. My hunch is the JL will get a longer life before something else comes along.

Any thoughts?

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[Flip]

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[The Last Cowboy]

Anything we come up with here is pure speculation. Any insider who may be a member here would likely be fired for leaking any product details outside of official corporate channels. That having been said, let us begin.

It’s somewhat likely, in my opinion, that the JL would continue to be produced, perhaps as a “classic” model. If a J70 was already in major development and mockup, they would almost be in a position where they would have to bring it to market.

Would it bear the Wrangler name? No way to know. Is this the best time to bring another EV to market? Hard to say, as the infrastructure never developed, even to a small fraction, as promised half a decade ago.

Some will love a J70 EV. Even the most unpopular cars on the road over the years have had staunch advocates. Who knows, though unlikely (based on current EV demand), it could be a hit.

As things stand right now, my opinion is that Jeep would be foolish beyond comprehension to discontinue the current, and time honored, Wrangler formula. To do so would leave that market wide open to a competitor. In the time it would take for Jeep to “bring back” the Wrangler, it would have lost its relevance. On the plus side if the current formula was abandoned, our JLs would hold incredible resale value.

 

[gato]

Why would an EV Wrangler-type vehicle be scrapped? EVs are the perfect platform for an offroad vehicle, specially one done right - like the Rivian quad motor set up.

A quad motor EV has monstrous torque from zero RPM. Offers great throttle control. There is no need for lockers or transfer cases and each wheel has it's own motor. Ground clearance is a dream with no low hanging exhausts, no need to skid fuel tanks and transfer case. Low center of gravity with the heavy battery low and between the axles will make it super stable and less likely to flip. No spinning vibrating drive shafts.

Even a cheaper dual motor setup have many of the same benefits.

And reliability should be amazing.

Yes, range and charging times are still a pain with EVs. But that is ONE downside, among a huge list of upsides.

Lets see how the Jeep Recon is received. The "Wrangler EV" will be a step up from that.

A well implemented EV Offroader would be hugely more capable than an ICE one.

 

[wrang_stang]

Anything we come up with here is pure speculation. Any insider who may be a member here would likely be fired for leaking any product details outside of official corporate channels. That having been said, let us begin.

It’s somewhat likely, in my opinion, that the JL would continue to be produced, perhaps as a “classic” model. If a J70 was already in major development and mockup, they would almost be in a position where they would have to bring it to market.

Would it bear the Wrangler name? No way to know. Is this the best time to bring another EV to market? Hard to say, as the infrastructure never developed, even to a small fraction, as promised half a decade ago.

Some will love a J70 EV. Even the most unpopular cars on the road over the years have had staunch advocates. Who knows, though unlikely (based on current EV demand), it could be a hit.

As things stand right now, my opinion is that Jeep would be foolish beyond comprehension to discontinue the current, and time honored, Wrangler formula. To do so would leave that market wide open to a competitor. In the time it would take for Jeep to “bring back” the Wrangler, it would have lost its relevance. On the plus side if the current formula was abandoned, our JLs would hold incredible resale value.

I think the competitor piece is important to reiterate here. We’ve seen how many off road focused competitor automakers have cropped up in the past few years out of nowhere, many of them EVs too. Scout and Ineos even have solid axles. Jeep would be foolish to think they can milk any more out of the brand heritage cow than they already have.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

I think the competitor piece is important to reiterate here. We’ve seen how many off road focused competitor automakers have cropped up in the past few years out of nowhere, many of them EVs too. Scout and Ineos even have solid axles. Jeep would be foolish to think they can milk any more out of the brand heritage cow than they already have.

The upcoming EV called the Scout is IFS. Plus, it is full size. They will be as big as an Expedition and F150, based on their wheelbase and track width.

 

[Ron Texas]

Maybe I should have asked the question differently. When the battery variants were announced there was no (it seems) mention of an ICE version. It was something like "the lineup will include EV and range extender models". It seems now the ICE version is not only certain, but will continue as the anchor of the Wrangler line with the battery versions in lesser quantity. It would seem the ICE version would require a very different platform from a vehicle with a 100 kw/hr battery.

So what will the ICE version look like? I suppose it will be evolutionary like the JL is to the JK. The two door and MT versions might be retired. Under hood space would be long enough to accommodate some version of the (not beloved) Hurricane I6. Even the NA 3.6 might go away. Maybe a non plug in hybrid will appear with the 4xe being absorbed by the range extender model.

 

[Dusty Dude]

Why would an EV Wrangler-type vehicle be scrapped? EVs are the perfect platform for an offroad vehicle, specially one done right - like the Rivian quad motor set up.

A quad motor EV has monstrous torque from zero RPM. Offers great throttle control. There is no need for lockers or transfer cases and each wheel has it's own motor. Ground clearance is a dream with no low hanging exhausts, no need to skid fuel tanks and transfer case. Low center of gravity with the heavy battery low and between the axles will make it super stable and less likely to flip. No spinning vibrating drive shafts.

Even a cheaper dual motor setup have many of the same benefits.

And reliability should be amazing.

Yes, range and charging times are still a pain with EVs. But that is ONE downside, among a huge list of upsides.

Lets see how the Jeep Recon is received. The "Wrangler EV" will be a step up from that.

A well implemented EV Offroader would be hugely more capable than an ICE one.

If it’s quality/reliability is as good as the EV Charger, it will be scrapped.

If it was well implemented, it would have a lot of benefits, as you mentioned. However, this is Stellantis we are talking about, not Tesla.

I’m more curious how much total weight the EV would have compared to the ICE JL. The current batteries are heavy, but the lack of other drivetrain parts does offset the battery weight.

A major skid plate would have to be installed across the entire battery, especially if it was low between the axles. One hit in the right place without a skid plate and it becomes an instant fireball.

The other concern I would have is how the battery would handle the off road shocks/vibrations and frame flexing/twisting long term. It’s one thing to have them on a smooth highway with an occasional pothole where the suspension takes the hit. It is another thing altogether having the battery twisted/bounced around harshly when the frame/skids take a hit.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

Given that the government is no longer requiring unattainable MPG requirements, that were a de facto mandate towards EVs, and that the buying public is showing less and less will to embrace EVs on a large scale, it seems that the prudent business decision would be to carry on with a dedicated combustion engine offering. The current Recon, as far as I know, has little to no demand. Overall, EV sales, excluding Tesla, are unremarkable to bad. Even Tesla is seeing a downturn. More likely due to overall lack of EV enthusiasm combined with inflation, as opposed to CEOs recent governmental role.

 

[2nd 392]

Given that the government is no longer requiring unattainable MPG requirements, that were a de facto mandate towards EVs, and that the buying public is showing less and less will to embrace EVs on a large scale, it seems that the prudent business decision would be to carry on with a dedicated combustion engine offering. The current Recon, as far as I know, has little to no demand. Overall, EV sales, excluding Tesla, are unremarkable to bad. Even Tesla is seeing a downturn. More likely due to overall lack of EV enthusiasm combined with inflation, as opposed to CEOs recent governmental role.

Aren’t free un manipulated market forces a wonderful thing and the true indicator. As it should be with bans, mandates, bribes, production percentages, energy policies, and so on not manipulating it. When EV tech advances make them more attractive to more people free market choice will respond accordingly. ….

 

[Ratbert]

I'm not sure about a pure electric variant. Something REPB-based, however, might be compelling.

 

[Ron Texas]

There are definitely engineering problems with an EV heavy duty off road vehicle. What happens when the trailhead is an hour away from the nearest charger? A 4xe weighs around 800 lbs more than an ICE I4. Replace the 17 or 20 kw/hr battery with 100 kw/hr, a full skid pad, rigid chassis and range extender gas engine plus generator and what will it weigh?

 

[2nd 392]

There are definitely engineering problems with an EV heavy duty off road vehicle. What happens when the trailhead is an hour away from the nearest charger? A 4xe weighs around 800 lbs more than an ICE I4. Replace the 17 or 20 kw/hr battery with 100 kw/hr, a full skid pad, rigid chassis and range extender gas engine plus generator and what will it weigh?

 

[jeepingib]

Maybe I should have asked the question differently. When the battery variants were announced there was no (it seems) mention of an ICE version. It was something like "the lineup will include EV and range extender models". It seems now the ICE version is not only certain, but will continue as the anchor of the Wrangler line with the battery versions in lesser quantity. It would seem the ICE version would require a very different platform from a vehicle with a 100 kw/hr battery.

So what will the ICE version look like? I suppose it will be evolutionary like the JL is to the JK. The two door and MT versions might be retired. Under hood space would be long enough to accommodate some version of the (not beloved) Hurricane I6. Even the NA 3.6 might go away. Maybe a non plug in hybrid will appear with the 4xe being absorbed by the range extender model.

I believe that you aren't remembering that information properly. Even back then when Stellantis announced it, it was that every vehicle in the line would have an electrified option available. And the Wrangler is already covered by their definition, as they consider the plug in hybrid 4xe a version of electrification.

Regardless, we know that they have been toying for years with a full BEV version of the Wrangler. But I don't think that it will come out until battery technology takes another leap forward. While the torque would be a lot of fun, it would also be incredibly inefficient as low speed high torque drains batteries faster than highway cruising.

 

[Ratbert]

I believe that you aren't remembering that information properly. Even back then when Stellantis announced it, it was that every vehicle in the line would have an electrified option available. And the Wrangler is already covered by their definition, as they consider the plug in hybrid 4xe a version of electrification.

Regardless, we know that they have been toying for years with a full BEV version of the Wrangler. But I don't think that it will come out until battery technology takes another leap forward. While the torque would be a lot of fun, it would also be incredibly inefficient as low speed high torque drains batteries faster than highway cruising.

Do you mean like this? https://www.stellantis.com/en/news/...-milestone-in-solid-state-battery-development

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