This wasn't in the brochure...

[Valpo Jeep]

It's unusual to hear complaints about the automatic. Stock gears and tires?

People don't understand that a double overdrive transmission, especially paired with an engine that makes peak power well past 5k rpms, is going to shift a lot. That's not hunting gears, it's functioning as designed. The load on the engine and thus shifting is more affected in a brick on wheels than a Maserati or audi by the wind? Shocking. His profile Pic looks too be a stock non-rubicon. With 3.45 gears it won't hold 8th under any kind of load be that a headwind or slight hill. That's a 2.31 final drive ratio. Not that forums existed back then, but I wonder if people discussed running 2-1 axle gears and why they had to downshift a lot before overdrive was a thing?

Yeah it hunts gears or rather shifts between 7 and 8 often but I am not really complaining about it, just commenting about it. Depending on speed, wind, and grade it will come out of 8th and go into 7th gear. And yes its an 18 JLU Sport S on stock size tires. Cooper all terrains but it did it on the original highway tires as well.

I can always pop it out of auto and into manual if it really bothered me. It still holds speed around here in 8th doing that. This weekend when we go on vacation and run down to Gatlinburg it might even downshift into 6th on the hills in Kentucky.

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[Ratbert]

Yeah it hunts gears or rather shifts between 7 and 8 often but I am not really complaining about it, just commenting about it. Depending on speed, wind, and grade it will come out of 8th and go into 7th gear. And yes its an 18 JLU Sport S on stock size tires. Cooper all terrains but it did it on the original highway tires as well.

I can always pop it out of auto and into manual if it really bothered me. It still holds speed around here in 8th doing that. This weekend when we go on vacation and run down to Gatlinburg it might even downshift into 6th on the hills in Kentucky.

Mine will definitely downshift when necessary, but it won't hunt back and forth like some other automatics I've driven love to do.

Hell, I was playing around with mine about a year ago and was able to get it to stay in 8th at about 40mph while going up and down smaller hills. Note, of course, that mine isn't a "normal" Wrangler by any stretch (heavy AF EcoDiesel on 37s with 4.63 gears).

 

[Zandcwhite]

Mine will definitely downshift when necessary, but it won't hunt back and forth like some other automatics I've driven love to do.

Hell, I was playing around with mine about a year ago and was able to get it to stay in 8th at about 40mph while going up and down smaller hills. Note, of course, that mine isn't a "normal" Wrangler by any stretch (heavy AF EcoDiesel on 37s with 4.63 gears).

It's the nature of the high revving v6 that causes the trans behavior. A charger with the same drivetrain does the same thing. Sure you can gear the axles so low that you're pushing 3k rpms at freeway speed in 8th, but that defeats any benefit to having 2 overdrives. The 3.6L barely puts out any power a 2k rpms, but I still want it to be able to roll down folks or with a tailwind at that rpm personally. That's how they geared it from the factory for a reason.

 

[bd100]

JT with 3.6, 3.73 gears, and 6MT.

My truck noticeably improved low-end torque around the 500 mile mark from engine break in. Before, I'd have to always hit 2nd gear on a rolling right-hand turn. After, I could hold third and it'd pull out of the turn without complaint. After 500 miles, it was also holding 6th more often. It all seemed to improve yet again around 15,000 miles. So if the engine is young, give it time.

And while towing our popup camping trailer around the country, I never use 6th. 5th is still an overdrive, and I don't want the transmission and engine to wear so much struggling with 6th. It can get 17MPG towing that popup in 5th.

The biggest problem I have is towing up the mountain passes, where 2nd gets it to 45MPH but 3rd isn't enough to go any faster. If it had 4.10 gears it would have to shift at 40MPH instead of 45MPH, but 3rd might (or might not) be able to pull from there with the 10% better gearing.

 

[Ratbert]

The biggest problem I have is towing up the mountain passes, where 2nd gets it to 45MPH but 3rd isn't enough to go any faster. If it had 4.10 gears it would have to shift at 40MPH instead of 45MPH, but 3rd might (or might not) be able to pull from there with the 10% better gearing.

That was always my worst towing scenario: flooring it at redline in 3rd, then trying to give it a breather by putting it in 4th, but that just bogged it down to the point where it wasn't doable, so you have to slam it back into 3rd and listen to it scream. Then repeat over and over while it slows down more and more. Those gears are just too damn tall.

 

[Save The Manuals!]

I disagree that the manual needs a regear anymore than an auto. The driver just need to downshift as early and as often as the auto does. Above 2nd gear the torque converter is locked up so the power throughout most of your daily driving is applied just the same through either transmission. Just because the manual owner doesn't want to shift properly doesn't mean they need to regear, it's user error. If they wanted a Jeep that once they were on the highway they never had to shift...they wanted an automatic. As far as "never seeing 5th and 6th", that's like the auto owners who "never see 8th", how the hell do you guys drive up hill everywhere you go? I see 8th all the time both with 4.10s and 37s and 4.56s and 39s. Obviously not up hill or into a headwind, but under low loads as intended in a double overdrive transmission.

Maybe not necessarily user error, but user retraining. It's a different animal that what I'm used to, that's all.
Today I asked my salesman, "Why didn't you tell me that sixth gear was so tall??" and I described my Iowa experience. He replied that it should get better mileage on the flats. Well, that's probably more important than not needing to shift on interstate hills.

OK, so nothing is perfect; every vehicle has plusses and minuses. Since most of us out here in the cheap seats aren't independently wealthy so that something can be modded to the extreme for every little quirk, we have to choose what we can live with and what we can't. I can't live without a stick shift; I can live with shifting on hills as needed.

 

[Save The Manuals!]

You can expect a lot of down and up shifting on grades. The bigger the tires and higher the gears the worse it is. Down in the hills of TN I just left mine in 5th gear and set the cruise at 70 and it did ok but 6th gear was a non starter unless I wanted to shift a lot. I have 4.10s and 35s which still turn higher rpm than a Sport does with its 3.45 gears and 32 inch tires.

The JL manual trans "feels weird" to a lot of people because it's first gear is super low 5.13:1 for crawling on rocks but is also double overdrive. 5th and 6th gears are both under 1:1. So even in 5th gear you are still in overdrive and 4th is 1:1 or direct drive if you are old school. 2,3,4 are "normal" gears like you expect in any other manual transmission. The combination of super low first and double overdrive 5th/6th makes it hard for people to wrap their head around.

Double overdrive. Huh. Who would've thought?? I wonder what the point of that is?

 

[Zandcwhite]

Double overdrive. Huh. Who would've thought?? I wonder what the point of that is?

Mileage under low loads. Even if you live in the mountains, 50% of your driving should be downhill.

 

[Save The Manuals!]

JT with 3.6, 3.73 gears, and 6MT.

My truck noticeably improved low-end torque around the 500 mile mark from engine break in. Before, I'd have to always hit 2nd gear on a rolling right-hand turn. After, I could hold third and it'd pull out of the turn without complaint. After 500 miles, it was also holding 6th more often. It all seemed to improve yet again around 15,000 miles. So if the engine is young, give it time.

And while towing our popup camping trailer around the country, I never use 6th. 5th is still an overdrive, and I don't want the transmission and engine to wear so much struggling with 6th. It can get 17MPG towing that popup in 5th.

The biggest problem I have is towing up the mountain passes, where 2nd gets it to 45MPH but 3rd isn't enough to go any faster. If it had 4.10 gears it would have to shift at 40MPH instead of 45MPH, but 3rd might (or might not) be able to pull from there with the 10% better gearing.

I think I'm around 1200 miles now. We'll see how well it behaves with more break-in.

Thanks for the towing tips. I plan to take my NINJA 400 on an AlphaSport trailer to the Appalacians next summer. And I dream about heading West someday, too.

 

[Save The Manuals!]

Mileage under low loads. Even if you live in the mountains, 50% of your driving should be downhill.

Sorry, I still don't get it. The gears seem to be practically the same; the tach doesn't even move at some speeds. Please explain.

 

[autotragic]

Double overdrive. Huh. Who would've thought?? I wonder what the point of that is?

Fuel economy.

Check out how many overdrive gears are in the 8 speed auto in a C8 Corvette....
1st Gear 2.91:1
2nd Gear 1.76:1
3rd Gear 1.22:1
4th Gear 0.88:1
5th Gear 0.65:1
6th Gear 0.51:1
7th Gear 0.40:1
8th Gear 0.33:1
Reverse Gear 2.63:1
Ring and Pinion Ratio 3.55:1

Five overdrives...haha

 

[Zandcwhite]

Sorry, I still don't get it. The gears seem to be practically the same; the tach doesn't even move at some speeds. Please explain.

I agree it is almost a waste with the manual as .81 and .72 are barely different. In the auto 7th is .84 and .67 for 8th. That seems like a worth while difference.

 

[Ratbert]

Mileage under low loads. Even if you live in the mountains, 50% of your driving should be downhill.

Downhill, where you shift to a lower gear, not higher.

 

[AVGeek99]

I've driven automatics while working for the dealership. They are incredibly smooth, and that's probably why I've never noticed how often they do or don't downshift. But I haven't driven any autos on much of a hill...I don't think. Or maybe I just didn't notice.

Not only do I love manuals, but that auto would've cost me another $4500. I can learn how to do a better job of shifting optimally for that much. I really appreciate everyone's coaching!

I love manuals as well, I've only had one automatic in nearly 40 years of driving. I ordered a 6MT because I wanted a manual. But it is geared way too high. IMO, if the JL manual took the gear ratios for 2-6 in the JK manual and 1st gear from the JL the overall driving experience would be much better. Fuel efficiency would take a little hit, but it would be more driveable.

 

[AVGeek99]

I disagree that the manual needs a regear anymore than an auto. The driver just need to downshift as early and as often as the auto does. Above 2nd gear the torque converter is locked up so the power throughout most of your daily driving is applied just the same through either transmission. Just because the manual owner doesn't want to shift properly doesn't mean they need to regear, it's user error. If they wanted a Jeep that once they were on the highway they never had to shift...they wanted an automatic. As far as "never seeing 5th and 6th", that's like the auto owners who "never see 8th", how the hell do you guys drive up hill everywhere you go? I see 8th all the time both with 4.10s and 37s and 4.56s and 39s. Obviously not up hill or into a headwind, but under low loads as intended in a double overdrive transmission.

To be clear, all my comments below are assuming a manual transmission.

Your 2nd sentence proves the point I was trying to make. You can get by with larger tires on stock gearing, as long as you shift "as early and often as the automatic does". The automatic is always shifting, just as it's designed and programmed to do; and it does it very well. I like driving a manual but shifting that often would take a little bit of the fun out of it.

A Rubicon with it's 4.10s could get by with 37s, in the flat lands, but I certainly wouldn't want to drive it. I drove mine with 35s for two years and it was perfectly acceptable, but I am VERY happy that I regeared to 4.88s for 37s. I drove on my 35s for 5 months with the 4.88s before getting the 37s. I thought the 4.88s were too short for 35s, I honestly didn't like it. When I got the 37s it was a huge improvement. With that big a difference moving from 35s to 37s on 4.88s, I can only imagine how bad the 37s would have been with 4.10s.

I would never drive any of the other trim levels with their 3.45s on anything but stock tire size. I drove a JK Sahara with stock 3.21s with 35s for a couple years. In 6th, it struggled to hold 65 on level ground with no headwind. Add any amount of headwind or incline and you were losing speed. 3.45s in the JL are step up from 3.21s, but 5th and 6th in the JL are significantly higher than the JK. The JLs one saving grace for use with taller diffs is 1st gear is significantly shorter.

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