Third Dampener Solution To Death Wobble?

[Spartan99]

I had a bad shimmy from 2500 miles to about 5000 as I tried to figure it out. Brought my car to a well known mechanic (4x4 place in lake hoptcong, NJ ) that works on jeeps and he said more than likely it was tires out of balance, and he was right!!! I added the falcon 2.1 as I'm not lifiting my jeep along with the rustys track bar support and an alignment and the jeep handles great.

Excellent! I wonder if the dealerships just replace stabilizers because it’ll atleast make it feel like it stopped for a bit. That new stabilizer they slap on is slowly getting destroyed internally but at least it shuts us up. Wheel balancers though can fall off quite often; pot holes, smacking a curb accidentally, off roading, just normal driving, etc. Or with them still perfectly on but the wheels unbalance from wear and tear and the vibration returns but it’s too soft to notice, shimmy returns then dw. I guess Fiat would have to have 500 wheel balancing stations running 24/7 at each dealer just to handle warranty tire balancing... no frikkin’ way they’d do that lol.

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[Spartan99]

DW really is easy to manage once you just understand what it is. Every once in a while you’ll get a shimmy... no biggie just get front wheels balanced. $20. Once a year get your fittings greased with that oil change. No biggie. Get a torque wrench and spend an hour once a year torquing the fasteners or pay someone to do it. $80 no biggie. Just once in a while do this stuff and like m3reno did, make friends with a 4x4 place or a mom and pop garage those folks at the dealer either don’t know what to do or don’t care.


Great call on that steering box too. Really great call.

 

[Spartan99]

That's not DW though...that's a slight steering wheel vibration or shimmy. Real DW is so bad, you won't want to drive it on the road after it happens once.

Glad you brought that up. That shimmy can and will evolve into dw if ignored. All of our Jeeps have the virus. It’s like a Jeep herpe lol. They all have herpes. Take that valtrex suppressant when you get that tingly itch because if you don’t it’ll turn into a full blown outbreak. Or hiv! They all have it. If you ignore the symptoms it’ll turn into full blown AIDS.

Dark humor. My wife and I refer to this issue jokingly as herpes. “How’s the Jeep dear?” “Meh... been a while but I sense an outbreak.” “Ah. I’ll go get some valtrex (wheel balance).”

 

[Spartan99]

LOL... Love the analogy.


However, I've had shimmy on lot of vehicles that never turned into DW. That happens when you run unbalanced, heavy bias ply tires on beadlocks that can't effectively be balanced in the first place. All of them had either BIG rod ends for the linkages and upgraded ball joints or 1 ton SREs.

I agree that shimmy isn't something to ignore....didn't mean to even imply that. But, you pay to play when you get into really big, aggressive tires with beadlocks. If you want any shimmy gone....you'll need ram assist with the aforementioned set up. PSC is working on that now for the JL.

Excellent point. People need to understand that the further they go from stock the more it’s going to take to keep this under control. Lots of people shove meaty heavy tires under their Jeeps, cram 2.5” pucks in the shock towers for a quick lift, and good luck ever getting it drive well. There should be warnings on mods for newbies (which we all were at one point and I mean no harm with term) because a lot of them are getting ripped off. They’ll spend money to lift or whatever only to completely ruin how it drives, then struggle with fixing it, only to learn they now have to spend even more to do it right, when it’s cheaper in the long run to pay up front for the right products installed correctly.

 

[Chewbacca2264]

So 40 miles of testing with ambient temps approaching 30, steering is much better. With the increased temps I did put the Falcon back up to firm setting for best results. I would say that this thing is now about 85% of what I expected. The wheel is much tighter and the sloppy feel and constant sawing of the wheel is long gone. Still there is a vague feel to the steering that is hard to explain. First I had the toe set 1/16 past spec, when they checked my Jeep over after the install they put it back to spec, so I may need to increase toe a bit. Also I am running a tire that is not as firm as most folks so I have more sidewall flex, that was intentional and was something that I did on one of my JK's. Bottom line is my off road use consists of getting to my hunting and fishing spots and I can accomplish that with my chosen tire. It allows me to run a tire year round in the crazy weather we get here in central NY. All said I have some playing to do, but there is absolutely no sign of vibration or wobble through the wheel. In the end I may now admit that this vague steering is a Jeep thing, as there is not much more for me to do. A bolt kit will go in when the weather breaks, a bit more toe and I will play with tire pressure a bit. I still believe that my issues were 90% the gear box, this box is much better and gives a much better feel. I guess all said I still prefer my JK in the steering department and kind of wish that we had the ability to adjust the steering, as a slightly firmer box or less steer assist would still make me happy, though this is the best it has been so I feel like I need to log some miles in all sorts of road conditions before I say much more. Good luck to all fighting the good fight!

Chewi

 

[Spartan99]

I don't know that "ripped off" is the term I'd use. But...it does leave the decision to the end user which is a good thing, and IMO, the more options the better....from inexpensive and incomplete to full on custom and very expensive and everywhere in between.

I say that as I didn't want to lift the wife's JLUR at all......put 37's on it and started cutting. The problem is, even after all these years, Jeep engineers still haven't figured out what other manufacturers have....namely that you need to build the drivetrain to sit predominantly in between rather than below the passengers which if done correctly, won't raise the CoG that much. The frame rail clearance on the JL and JK is pitiful. I'm sitting on true 37s and at street pressure I have 16" of clearance at the frame rail. It's just not enough for wheeling; which means I'm going to have to lift as little as possible to make it work.

In that regard, there aren't a lot of 2" lifts out there that are complete....which means I'll have to build it all completely custom (which is more work that I want to put into this vehicle in terms of mainly time, but money as well since if I went that route, I'd do C/Os or ORIs and 1 1/4-12 x 1" bore SREs)....or, buy it piece meal to do it "right" with new track bars and LCAs (as just some of the components).

At least there are a lot of options....but as always caveat emptor.

Excellent points. Good stuff my friend.

 

[VNT]

Per grease fittings, I dont think there is a single grease fitting on these? As I recall doing some work on mine. The factory are all sealed.

In the spring will tourque all the bolts and probably replace the control arm bolts with the Northridge kit and put a better stabilizer on.

What is the concensus per a stabilizer, for a stock unlifted Sahara, the Nexus or a Fox?

Also any fixed length beefier track bars, might upgrade that.

Havent had any issues so far.

 

[ChattVol]

Long time Jeep owner here. I will bet my first born that 1) your wheels are not balanced and b) your toe might be a tad out.

Our Jeep front ends are hyper sensitive to vibrations. On other cars with independent suspension, an unbalanced tire’s vibrations don’t vibrate through the solid front axle and cause the whole thing to shimmy more and more as the wheel gets more unbalanced and parts start to loosen and it goes from unnoticeable to a shimmy to god me my Jeep is going to explode.

Eventually your ball joints wear out faster because in addition to the shimmies and dw’s you rarely grease the ball joints, causing the front end to be even more loose and susceptible to shimmies and wobbles. Also you never take the time to torque your front end fasteners. By you I mean me in my first years of ownership lol. Eventually I figured out dw. It’s easy, actually. Keep those wheels balanced. Offroading of course makes it easy to lose them, as does every day driving. Keep your toe correct. Toe out is like skiing with your skis pointed out, where each leg is pulling you away from the other, wobbling you left and right. DON’T GET CHEAP LIFTS. You’ll f up that critical caster angle. You want a lift? Do it right. Do not alter the geometry. Torque and grease the fittings annually. Stabilizers are failing because over time the wobbling is abusing the dampener. Failing stabilisers are symptomatic. You keep your caster angle right, keep your tires balanced, fittings greased, fasteners torqued, track bar in good shape and toe angle right and you won’t have a vibration that evolves into a shimmy and then matures into dw. Just pay attention you’ll get a hang of it. On newer rigs it’s almost always just a wheel balance, and it can especially be a challenge to balance those big tires people put on with bead locks etc.

Thanks for the input. I have an appt with jeep today to look at the steering shimmy/vibration that's been going on for a month. Last wk, had new quadratec 41" 17"×8.5" wheels put on, rotated and balanced with existing 315/70/17 ko2's load c that were on stock rubi wheels and steering didnt improve. Tires aired to 32psi and still have some shimmy(2-3 seconds steering going back and forth) driving over a few particular bumps between 40-50 mph.

A month or so ago(2 days after adding the RK 2.5" stage 1 lift with trackbar and fixed LCA's), it DW one time at 40mph before front axle was centered left to right(was offcenter towards driver side) and it was shifted 3/4" so tires stuck out of fender farther on driver side. The lift installer had wanted me to drive on new lift for 5 days before final adjustments to axle to let it settle.

Currently, the shimmy happens a 1-2 times a day on certains bumps at 40-50mph and it vibrates some and I want to fix it before it evolves. Had allignment checked and caster is fixed at 6 with the RK fixed LCA's, alignment checked out good and ball joints are good. I retorqued all bolts on track bar/draglink/tie rod, greased the Rock Krawler fittings with their expensive 000 grease, unmounted all 4 RK RRD TT shocks at bottom + steering stabilizer and verified resistance consistency was ok. The damper had about a 3/4" dead spot when extended about 20% past midline. Ordered a Metalcloak stabilizer that will be here tomorrow, but understand this wont address the root cause. I talked to another tire place and thet tried to sell me on paying $100 to have them roadforce balanced. I want to wait to see what jeep does to address the issue.

@Chewbacca2264 I'm going to show your steering box info to the service manager and see if he will replace it. Thanks for your input.

 

[Spartan99]

Thanks for the input. I have an appt with jeep today to look at the steering shimmy/vibration that's been going on for a month. Last wk, had new quadratec 41" 17"×8.5" wheels put on, rotated and balanced with existing 315/70/17 ko2's load c that were on stock rubi wheels and steering didnt improve. Tires aired to 32psi and still have some shimmy(2-3 seconds steering going back and forth) driving over a few particular bumps between 40-50 mph.

A month or so ago(2 days after adding the RK 2.5" stage 1 lift with trackbar and fixed LCA's), it DW one time at 40mph before front axle was centered left to right(was offcenter towards driver side) and it was shifted 3/4" so tires stuck out of fender farther on driver side. The lift installer had wanted me to drive on new lift for 5 days before final adjustments to axle to let it settle.

Currently, the shimmy happens a 1-2 times a day on certains bumps at 40-50mph and it vibrates some and I want to fix it before it evolves. Had allignment checked and caster is fixed at 6 with the RK fixed LCA's, alignment checked out good and ball joints are good. I retorqued all bolts on track bar/draglink/tie rod, greased the Rock Krawler fittings with their expensive 000 grease, unmounted all 4 RK RRD TT shocks at bottom + steering stabilizer and verified resistance consistency was ok. The damper had about a 3/4" dead spot when extended about 20% past midline. Ordered a Metalcloak stabilizer that will be here tomorrow, but understand this wont address the root cause. I talked to another tire place and thet tried to sell me on paying $100 to have them roadforce balanced. I want to wait to see what jeep does to address the issue.

@Chewbacca2264 I'm going to show your steering box info to the service manager and see if he will replace it. Thanks for your input.

With this type of approach you’ll certainly get to the bottom of it and once you do you’ll be able to pretty much keep it under control and eliminate it. Nice job. A shimmy will return when something gets out of line, like a wheel weight or whatever, but you’ll know what to do. Nice job.

 

[Joe jl]

Mine developed about 6 weeks ago on stock Sahara and had 21k problem free miles until this. It is going back for I think the 6th time. A few stabilizers, new track bar and control arms. I thought it was finally fixed this time.

 

[Socceref]

My dealer took a torque wrench to the steering linkage and suspension. A lot of the bolts were loose. Some were significantly loose.

They said that wobble does not happen in JL. However, if the bolts are out of spec.. it behaved like it. It drives a little stiffer, but no more wobble. I drove to bring it on and it performed well. No need for the JK dampening parts in my case.

 

[ChattVol]

With the amount of mods you have to your suspension and different tires than stock, I highly doubt Jeep is going to do anything for your complaint. You've changed a whole bunch of variables that could be causing your issue. Tough pill to swallow, but you're going to likely have to find the solution on your own.

Talked with Jeep today for a issue with a faulty door hinge...they"re fixing that and I told the shop foreman about the shimmy and gearbox solution. He said he would check the gearbox and other steering areas and gave me a loaner car. They've been very good to work with so far.

 

[photowiz]

Agreed - if anyone has any further thoughts would be appreciated. I do not have death wobble where the steering is non stop wobble, but if I'm driving and hit bumps or anything in road get bad wobble then. I e-mailed the dealership and offered to buy a falcon stabilizer myself to replace when they do the dampener - this is becoming really frustrating. 5K on the odometer of a 52K price tag vehicle - 3rd visit to shop and same part keeps being replaced.

We have had several death wobble events in the last 2,000 miles with our 2018 JLUS. Started at 8,000 miles. We are at 10,500 miles now. It started with a shimmy, then a shimmy and wandering. While on the interstate my wife experienced the first full DW. Our dealer has been great. I was out of town when she limped into the service dept.. She was met by the Service manager and one of their senior techs. They drove it and it wasn't long before they returned white faced. They flashed the computer, checked ball joints and all suspension bolts, performed an alignment, tire balance and 5 tire rotation. Finally installed a new stabilizer, the updated, new and improved one. The new stabilizer looked beefier than the original. They show me both of them. It drove better than ever, until last week. I was in the Jeep this time. It started on the interstate, on level road at about 65 mph. I drove over a rough patch of pavement while approaching my exit. Instantly the Jeep began to shake violently to the point I thought I would lose control. I braked heavily and tried to keep the steering wheel straight. Before I regained control, I was almost halfway in the left lane. I'm thankful I wasn't on a two lane road with oncoming traffic. I may not be here today. It didn't stop until I got below 50 mph. I drove straight to the dealer (about 25 miles away). I never got above 55 mph. The service dept. took it on a test drive and it wasn't long until they replicated the problem. They gave me a nice loaner and I went home thinking it may take a few days. They called me the next day and had replaced the steering box, realigned, rotated and rebalanced the tires, rechecked ball joints and reset the tow to an angle suggested by a recently released service bulletin. Like I said previously, they are doing everything they can to fix the problem. I've driven about 400 miles with no issue. The new steering box made the steering tighter and more responsive, probably the best feel since we bought it. Time will tell if it is fixed for good. If it comes back, I'll see if the dealer will install a third party stabilizer and beef up the front suspension parts. If they won't, I will. They want me to keep tire pressure at 37 psi. That seems high IMHO during winter months. I'll post updates here.

 

[photowiz]

13k miles on my jlus with 2.5" RK lift, 35" ko2's, adjustable trackbar and longer fixed LCA's and steering has been vibrating a good bit and had 1st DW experience 3 weeks ago at 45mph after driving over a small bump on a busy 4 lane road. I hit the brakes hard and it went away at 25mph. I was shook up after it and called my axle shop to look at it because they're closer and could look at it quicker than Jeep.. They retorqued my steering related bolts, checked allignment and made sure axles are centered. They adjusted the front axle a bit and said caster is at 6.0. Since then, I've still been having vibrations and shimmy over certain bumps, but no DW. I checked the oem SS and it did have some inconsistent resistance in a spot that felt like a dead spot. I checked the part # on the SS and it was X064M1, which the 064 is less than 257, so it falls under the needs replacement category. After reading about all the repeated failed oem SS issues and it being time consuming going to jeep, I ordered a Metalcloak SS, bur fear this is a bandaid. I dont want to spend $ on a Yeti steersmart draglink/tie rod.

Are others finding that having the steering box replaced by jeep has helped? Should I pony up on a yeti tie rod and draglink since I have the RK track bar?

My dealership replaced the steering box under warranty in one day. Gave me a nice loaner. About 400 miles. So far so good. We had full blown DW for the second time in 2,000 miles.

 

[Spartan99]

We have had several death wobble events in the last 2,000 miles with our 2018 JLUS. Started at 8,000 miles. We are at 10,500 miles now. It started with a shimmy, then a shimmy and wandering. While on the interstate my wife experienced the first full DW. Our dealer has been great. I was out of town when she limped into the service dept.. She was met by the Service manager and one of their senior techs. They drove it and it wasn't long before they returned white faced. They flashed the computer, checked ball joints and all suspension bolts, performed an alignment, tire balance and 5 tire rotation. Finally installed a new stabilizer, the updated, new and improved one. The new stabilizer looked beefier than the original. They show me both of them. It drove better than ever, until last week. I was in the Jeep this time. It started on the interstate, on level road at about 65 mph. I drove over a rough patch of pavement while approaching my exit. Instantly the Jeep began to shake violently to the point I thought I would lose control. I braked heavily and tried to keep the steering wheel straight. Before I regained control, I was almost halfway in the left lane. I'm thankful I wasn't on a two lane road with oncoming traffic. I may not be here today. It didn't stop until I got below 50 mph. I drove straight to the dealer (about 25 miles away). I never got above 55 mph. The service dept. took it on a test drive and it wasn't long until they replicated the problem. They gave me a nice loaner and I went home thinking it may take a few days. They called me the next day and had replaced the steering box, realigned, rotated and rebalanced the tires, rechecked ball joints and reset the tow to an angle suggested by a recently released service bulletin. Like I said previously, they are doing everything they can to fix the problem. I've driven about 400 miles with no issue. The new steering box made the steering tighter and more responsive, probably the best feel since we bought it. Time will tell if it is fixed for good. If it comes back, I'll see if the dealer will install a third party stabilizer and beef up the front suspension parts. If they won't, I will. They want me to keep tire pressure at 37 psi. That seems high IMHO during winter months. I'll post updates here.

Sounds like a really good dealership. That’s awesome

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