Sunrider position pointless?

[Bryce]

Well, if we are strictly following the manual, as the topic is titled "Sunrider Position Poitles?"
YES

Based on this screen shot of the manual, Sunruder position is only for use when the vehicle is stationary since it can only be moved when the top is fully lowered or attached to the windshield.

Windows in/windows out... don't matter!

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[Rahneld]

'

You are incorrect in your assumption, I have read every single post in this thread. My position and post still stands. As you have stated yourself, we agree on many points. You have just spent way too many words, and turned on "legalese" to vastly over complicate the conversation when is was not necessary. I don't know if you are studying to be in the legal field, or what, but really man, it's just not needed on a forum. With over 20 years in the legal industry, I hear enough of it as it is.

Truth is, I risk it below 40, not a big deal. Above 40, I just open the back, just like in a JK. Probably not necessary, but it makes me happy.

I you read:

• Why are you telling me this isn't a court room or what most people are interest in? You don't know this from context? I was one of the first to say window removal is a rule I don't follow and have little worry it will result in harm. This implies that I'm well aware the forums isn't a court room and that I get that all most people want to know is if, for most people, do they think it safe to keep the windows in in Sunrider mode.
• The court stuff only appear because two people, one still, believes the owner's manual wrong despite even @JeepCares saying otherwise...which you should know if you already read.
• Knowing I said this why would you pose these questions?
• Why would you tell me that the owner's manual and supplement make it unclear when I've repeatedly agreed they contradict one another?
  
  And the...
  
  

  '

  ​

  I would thing below 40 or so, no need to worry about them either way.
  

  ​

  
  
  that's seems to be FCA's line about the back window on the JK as it regards soft windows and Sunrider mode, and your opinion, which your entitled too and I agree with. But I hope you agree it's NOT FCA's policy on the JL despite the conflicting documentation I cited long before you as such.
  
  If you read, why pose questions asked and answered?​

 

[Rahneld]

Well, if we are strictly following the manual, as the topic is titled "Sunrider Position Poitles?"
YES

Based on this screen shot of the manual, Sunruder position is only for use when the vehicle is stationary since it can only be moved when the top is fully lowered or attached to the windshield.

Windows in/windows out... don't matter!

If your point is that the owner's manual itself has conflicts, and it conflicts with other literature, everyone agrees. There are even parts deliberately deceptive in the working or absence of explanation, IMHO.

In the absence of an owner's manual addendum though we both can't retrieve, FCA won't know us from Adam for warranty or liability related to damage with windows in and top open--not that, like you, I think such damages are anything but remotely likely.

 

[Bryce]

If your point is that the owner's manual itself has conflicts, and it conflicts with other literature, everyone agrees. There are even parts deliberately deceptive in the working or absence of explanation, IMHO.

In the absence of an owner's manual addendum though we both can't retrieve, FCA won't know us from Adam for warranty or liability related to damage with windows in and top open--not that, like you, I think such damages are anything but remotely likely.

No, I am now convinced that the Sunrider top position is pointless unless you are parked and working on your tan. There it is in digital B&W. You are not to move the vehicle unless to top is fully down or fully closed and attached to the windshield. Windows in/out, Sunrider position is not for moving.

However, I do what I do when I do it.

 

[robaw]

How's about if your unwilling to admit your wrong.....?

 

[Jebiruph]

Well, if we are strictly following the manual, as the topic is titled "Sunrider Position Poitles?"
YES

Based on this screen shot of the manual, Sunruder position is only for use when the vehicle is stationary since it can only be moved when the top is fully lowered or attached to the windshield.

Windows in/windows out... don't matter!

I can't find this in the 2018 manual, what manual/page is it from?

 

[Bryce]

I can't find this in the 2018 manual, what manual/page is it from?

It's an online version. 2019 First Edition V4 page 111. I pulled it up in the "My Jeep" Andriod app.

 

[TaxPhan]

You guys, they are still arguing about this!

The winner? Nobody.

 

[TaxPhan]

Sure: it's fine to do and unlikely damage will occur; people do it all the time. But, you're on the hook if damage does result, not FCA.

Pretty sure we are on the hook for many choices we make in our Jeeps, so just add this to that expanding potential list.

 

[cjaama]

Well, if we are strictly following the manual, as the topic is titled "Sunrider Position Poitles?"
YES

Based on this screen shot of the manual, Sunruder position is only for use when the vehicle is stationary since it can only be moved when the top is fully lowered or attached to the windshield.

Windows in/windows out... don't matter!

Haha I noticed this too and came to the same (tongue in cheek) conclusion. I didn’t point it out because I didn’t want to open up another can of worms for people to misconstrue as anything more than pointing out something in jest.

I will say, the legitimate legal concern for FCA would be a window dislodging for any reason and someone trying to retrieve it and being flattened. I came across a post on the facebook forum last night of someone saying they had their side window blow out on the highway, followed by several people recounting the same (oddly riding with their windows and top up).

 

[Rahneld]

I will say, the legitimate legal concern for FCA would be a window dislodging for any reason and someone trying to retrieve it and being flattened.

Marketing concern: maybe. Legal-no. Here's why Chris: the owner chose to retrieve that window and incurred a bad outcome as a product of their decisions, that FCA had no control over. That FCA was a catalyst in the motivation for that owner/operator to retrieve the windows, even if those windows came lose do to defect, nevertheless limits FCA as follows:

If the product was defective, (e.g. the soft windows come out even when the top's closed and the windows are properly installed) true, courts may find need for FCA to warranty/recall/pay damages to those affected by the window's dislodging, owner or another drive behind alike, but not for the wrongful death--at least the one of your scenario. In fact if FCA legal sees this window dislodging an omnipresent problem looming on the horizon they may recommend that FCA executives issues a voluntary recall, as fighting in court will take considerable financing and likely lead to the same need for FCA to remedy this--I say hypothetically.

The proactive stance of voluntary recall, in the face of all but certain court compelled recall also is the likely better marketing outcome for FCA.

I came across a post on the facebook forum last night of someone saying they had their side window blow out on the highway, followed by several people recounting the same (oddly riding with their windows and top up).

FCA will cry operator installation error or fluke malfunction a dealer can fix, not bad product design until, should it happens so frequently, a class action case could or does evolve.

If these facebook owners you site experience a pattern of problems that grows in scope it may be actionable, but my guess is were not there yet.

 

[Rahneld]

I haven't lost my cool though there's plenty here to do so with. Another thread, last I checked, with a poll on this subject matter still finds the majority of people thinking FCA says its ok to leave the soft windows in on the JL when in Sunrider mode.

I accept that people will arrive at wrong conclusions reading wrong information here but it can be maddening.

FWIW, I fully accept unlikelihood that bad outcomes will arise from ignoring these window removal directives, so much as repeatedly and expressly stating that.

The owner's manual clearly indicates window removal. The owner's manual is the document dealers and courts will refer to when refusing warranty and liability claims. This, as case law has shown, is enhanced when subordinate guides have verbiage that says, in so many words, "refer to the owner's manual for complete details." This is undeniable truth. And we find this verbiage on the supplemental card that, I'm the first to admit has conflicting instructions on Sunrider position procedure to the owner's manual.

This disclaimer language came to be from case law, where auto makers were handed less favorable outcomes by the courts in year's past when such disclaimers weren't in non owner's manual documents with conflicting instructions.

@JeepCares has expressly conveyed need to follow the owner's manual.

And yet still people preach otherwise, as if FCA is going to override @JeepCares , an arm of their own organization, because they enjoy paying litigants money.

Those who think FCA blesses keeping the windows in, you're acting a bit like fictional character Austin Powers in this scene. It's truly the stuff jokes are made of.



There are times we can debate things here like ESS where people's opinions play into the mix. This is not one of them.

Forum members need accurate information to make informed decisions. Leave the soft windows in, in this case, will likely amount to nothing. But if I'm wrong, damages are solely yours to pay, not FCA.

 

[ViperJon]

You win. You've worn everybody down by the sheer volume of words spewed and the ability to never ever let it go, even after saying this was your last post on the subject. Congrats. Somewhere there must be a prize or commendation awaiting.

 

[Rahneld]

You win. You've worn everybody down by the sheer volume of words spewed and the ability to never ever let it go, even after saying this was your last post on the subject. Congrats. Somewhere there must be a prize or commendation awaiting.

..and it's posts like these that keep me coming back. Where did I say this was my last post?

I didn't wear anybody down; the facts did....maybe. This nonsense should have stopped the moment @JeepCares gave us the FCA line on this subject matter. Go talk to the people who can't admit their wrong.

There's no prize. And why do you think someone still won't press another agenda? All there is is the satisfaction that people who read aren't give fiction upon which to make an informed decision. There is no winning. This isn't my argument. It's FCA's and the court's, I just quote it.

..until the next post that portrays opinion as fact....which, at the risk of the obvious Jon, you are not forced to read.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

He can’t stop. LOL!!

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