Stop/Start not working - battery charging

[Fudster]

@Pcw67

IMHO the Genesis Offroad kit that some are advocating as a solution for you here is overkill. It's not that the product is anything but first rate, but rather IMHO, its upfront and installation cost will set you back where other solutions are cheaper and more consistent with your needs.

(Your prior comments have me conclude that its installation is something you are not up to yourself.)

If you were the type of owner who tended to ran power hungry vehicle appliances, particular with the engine off, I'd be on board with your acquiring this product in the greater power and power management it affords.

You likely just need to replace both batteries. If you want to take it a step further, we could point you less inexpensive ways to bypass the ESS battery provided you commit to not allowing the ESS system to engage, or, where possible, trickle charge your batteries with a device that plugs at one end into your batteries, at and the other end into household current.

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[Jeepin_Donnie]

@Pcw67

Please disregard any nonsensical suggestion(s) here that you install a $1200+ aftermarket dual battery system on your JL.

MOST JL owner's do not need nor would they benefit from such an install.
And you still have to properly maintain that pricey set-up.. Most guys fail to realize this..

And stop throwing $ at the dealer, having them do load tests and yada yada. Just have the dealer change out both batteries now, pay the $750 (approx.) and go home.

Do on the forum, research dual battery systems on a JL.. YOU, depending on how much you use/drive your JL, may want to start using an battery tender/maintainer on your JL.

Research what is best for you. The peace of mind may be worth it for you. It would be for me and my family. Money is no object for this. But yes, these batteries will need replacing as well at some point. Also I am using my Genesis setup for many battery draining mods (including a fridge to be purchased soon).

There are a ton of threads on this, too many, with different causes of the battery issues which may or may not apply to you. And most likely the dealership will not properly diagnose the issue (if you have an issue, you may not), they will replace the batteries. When I replaced the batteries myself, this did not help with my aux battery issue.

 

[Fudster]

@Pcw67

Please disregard any nonsensical suggestion(s) here that you install a $1200+ aftermarket dual battery system on your JL.

MOST JL / JT owner's do not need nor would they benefit from such an install.
And you still have to properly maintain that pricey set-up.. Most guys fail to realize this..

And stop throwing $ at the dealer, having them do load tests and yada yada. Just have the dealer change out both batteries now, pay the $750 (approx.) and go home.

Do on the forum, research dual battery systems on a JL.. YOU, depending on how much you use/drive your JL, may want to start using a decent battery tender/maintainer on your JL.

To the points made above, when I wrote prior that independent load testing was the gold standard of battery testing, I did not want to conflate this fact with the idea that I always recommend that load testing be done, but rather that whatever tests the dealer may have effected may have fallen short of this standard, and perhaps been poorly useful as a diagnostic tool.

Best practices would find you replacing an old battery, not load testing it to confirm its old status.

It is possible that a load test here would find a battery in great shape and that your problem lies outside your batteries....sure, but far more the exception situation than the rule.

 

[mwilk012]

I'm hoping that price includes installation.

Even then it’s too much. It’s 1 hour by the book, and the part is listed at 140. That would take a labor rate of over 200 dollars. Dealers are screwing people, again.

 

[Strommen95]

Recommending the Genesis set up is absurd. If you’re going to take the time to install the dual battery set up, just take the time to delete the auxiliary and save a lot of cash. The Genesis is for people who put a heavy load on their electronics, not the average Jeeper.

 

[Sean L]

so what batteries do I ask for or will they be able to help me? (Sorry - first jeep questions)

No need to be sorry. I'd look in the owner's manual or get the size from the O'rielly website.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/b/.../v/a/148844/automotive-suv-2020-jeep-wrangler

Now keep in mind this is only for DIY and they don't do the install.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Even then it’s too much. It’s 1 hour by the book, and the part is listed at 140. That would take a labor rate of over 200 dollars. Dealers are screwing people, again.

@mwilk012

Geographical location plays a part in this. I know in the New York metropolitan area, Washington DC area, LA area, etc. you will pay between say $300 and $350 ish for an Aux battery replacement at a Jeep dealership. That's including local tax, etc..

Not defending or trashing dealerships.. Labor rates, taxes, disposal/core costs vary greatly from State to State and specific locations in those States..

 

[Genesis Offroad]

I only wish that the genius of the @Genesis Offroad dual battery tray could be made to have another use case other than the absolutely stubborn one that they will only market to. Their overall tray implementation is outstanding. If only they would provide an option for a larger size AUX rather than the really complicated voltage monitoring and cross charging strategy for the die hard overlanders.

Oh well, their marketing short-sightedness means they're losing out on potential sales to all the mall crawlers or single day off-roaders. Even though I'm confident I could rewire their tray to remove all that expensive sophistication, they've lost my business.

Jay

We have lots of customers that use our tray by itself to get 2 full sized batteries, and connect them exactly like the stock configuration, rather than using our full system with the smart isolator and everything else. If you'd like to do that, here's the link to our JL DIY kit.

https://www.genesisoffroad.com/jl-diy-dual-battery-kit

 

[WranglerMan]

I’ve had my Genesis system with Full River batteries stalled since fall of 2020 and have zero regrets as it have done it’s job more than once getting me out of a jam and provides me with extra power I need.

The average Jeeper that does not run aux equipment does have better options that cost alt less but that whole baby battery is bullshit and anyone is best suited to remove it so you don’t have to worry about it.

If I didn’t want the extra power or the convenience of having a built in jump pack I would choose to remove the ESS negative, move the ESS positive to the main crank, remove the ESS motorcycle battery and then disable ESS and be done.

Doing what I just suggested I would not use ESS as just having one battery and using it is to taxing on one battery.

As suggested you could also get the Genesis tray and two full size batteries and just move some cables.

It all comes down to personal choice and NO ONE SHOULD BE CALLED OUT ON THEIR. DECISION ON THEIR CHOICE just because you don’t like what that have picked.

Even though I have my Genesis setup I still do weekly top offs and monthly reconditioning of my batteries as we all know regardless of what you choose to go with batteries a an expendable resource and will have to be replaced no matter what.

 

[Whaler27]

I’ve had my Genesis system with Full River batteries stalled since fall of 2020 and have zero regrets as it have done it’s job more than once getting me out of a jam and provides me with extra power I need.

The average Jeeper that does not run aux equipment does have better options that cost alt less but that whole baby battery is bullshit and anyone is best suited to remove it so you don’t have to worry about it.

If I didn’t want the extra power or the convenience of having a built in jump pack I would choose to remove the ESS negative, move the ESS positive to the main crank, remove the ESS motorcycle battery and then disable ESS and be done.

Doing what I just suggested I would not use ESS as just having one battery and using it is to taxing on one battery.

As suggested you could also get the Genesis tray and two full size batteries and just move some cables.

It all comes down to personal choice and NO ONE SHOULD BE CALLED OUT ON THEIR. DECISION ON THEIR CHOICE just because you don’t like what that have picked.

Even though I have my Genesis setup I still do weekly top offs and monthly reconditioning of my batteries as we all know regardless of what you choose to go with batteries a an expendable resource and will have to be replaced no matter what.

I’m sure weekly top-offs are smart/preferred practice, especilly if Odyssey batteries don’t like the small nightly discharge, but there are lots of times when it’s not convenient to connect a charger.

I have a work car, and I work a lot, so it’s not uncommon for me to go several weeks without driving a personal vehicle. That’s never been a problem until now. Is the JL, or the combination of JL and Genesis dual battery system, especially vulnerable to discharge? For example, if you started with a fully charged Genesis system, would you assume that four months of sitting in airport long term parking would kill your battery? In that situation I always carry a jumper pack and cables, but I haven’t had to use them in years.

 

[RandyMarion CDJR]

Could be battery or batteries are on the way out. Weird things happen with battery issues on these.

Agreed, the system loses a bit of a handle on things when the battery isn't up to par. I wonder if Stellantis/FCA is aware of this prominent issue? We see it a lot. Theres also plenty of general confusion surrounding how the Jeep system reports it & im sure mechanics out there are very happy about it. A inexperienced driver would think their beloved Jeep is preparing for the landfill & take it to the local mechanic over a simple issue lol.

As a new salesman 2 years ago the first time I interacted with a dead battery, the warnings and system lights made me think the Jeep was literally going to fall apart lol. Considering everything is ran by a chip, seems like the system could better point you to remedies for its problems instead of it being a cat & mouse game to figure it out between a mechanic and yourself.

 

[Genesis Offroad]

I’m sure weekly top-offs are smart/preferred practice, especilly if Odyssey batteries don’t like the small nightly discharge, but there are lots of times when it’s not convenient to connect a charger.

I have a work car, and I work a lot, so it’s not uncommon for me to go several weeks without driving a personal vehicle. That’s never been a problem until now. Is the JL, or the combination of JL and Genesis dual battery system, especially vulnerable to discharge? For example, if you started with a fully charged Genesis system, would you assume that four months of sitting in airport long term parking would kill your battery? In that situation I always carry a jumper pack and cables, but I haven’t had to use them in years.

I'd say 4 months is a long time for any late model vehicle to sit unused. All vehicles use a little bit of battery power for stuff like the radio presets, security system, keyless entry, and computer systems. So if you know ahead of time that your vehicle won't be used for that long, it's best to either disconnect the battery ground cable (like at an airport) or leave a trickle charger connected to it.

 

[RickSavage]

Mine is doing the same thing and i'm tickled to death it's gone and i didn't have to buy a tazer to disable the BS ess.

I work for a dealer, I have seen this a few times if the auxiliary battery has been replaced chech the battery sensor on your negative cable on the big battery. The state if charge needs to be 85% or more. Replace it then let it sit for about 30 mins. That should take care if it.

 

[WranglerMan]

I’m sure weekly top-offs are smart/preferred practice, especilly if Odyssey batteries don’t like the small nightly discharge, but there are lots of times when it’s not convenient to connect a charger.

I have a work car, and I work a lot, so it’s not uncommon for me to go several weeks without driving a personal vehicle. That’s never been a problem until now. Is the JL, or the combination of JL and Genesis dual battery system, especially vulnerable to discharge? For example, if you started with a fully charged Genesis system, would you assume that four months of sitting in airport long term parking would kill your battery? In that situation I always carry a jumper pack and cables, but I haven’t had to use them in years.

All vehicles have parasitic draw and the Genesis sys does add to that draw powering the Cole Hersey relay/solenoid but only until the main crank battery drops to 12.7 +/- .1 then it opens/disconnects and that draw goes away.

Any newer vehicle if parked that long should be on some type of charger/maintainer, I’m not sure how long the aux battery would hold a good charge to start after being parked for months but once the voltage drops to the 12.7 threshold it’s disconnected so unless you have something connected it would just be a battery under the hood that’s charged.

Maybe @Genesis Offroad could chime in but I’m guessing it all comes down to how good the battery is and what conditions are where it’s parked.

 

[Whaler27]

All vehicles have parasitic draw and the Genesis sys does add to that draw powering the Cole Hersey relay/solenoid but only until the main crank battery drops to 12.7 +/- .1 then it opens/disconnects and that draw goes away.

Any newer vehicle if parked that long should be on some type of charger/maintainer, I’m not sure how long the aux battery would hold a good charge to start after being parked for months but once the voltage drops to the 12.7 threshold it’s disconnected so unless you have something connected it would just be a battery under the hood that’s charged.

Maybe @Genesis Offroad could chime in but I’m guessing it all comes down to how good the battery is and what conditions are where it’s parked.

The Genesis response (above) was helpful.

I don’t plan to leave a vehicle for months without a trickle charger, but a month of sitting in long term parking is a possibility. A newer vehicle with a fully charged and augmented/oversized battery system should be able to tolerate that without having to screw with disconnecting the battery.

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