Reliability

[Zandcwhite]

As a life long jeep enthusiast (we've owned 10 different jeeps over the last 20 years), I'll never call the wrangler a bad choice. That being said, if you aren't going to lift it, never plan on off-roading it, and never plan on removing the top or doors, I think the grand Cherokee is a much better road vehicle. More creature comforts, more power, better handling, quieter ride, more space, etc. We love our 2019 jlu rubicon, but we off road frequently, pull the top when it's nice, and we lifted it and add 37" tires. If you won't use the benefits of the wrangler, why settle for the drawbacks associated?

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[aldo98229]

As a life long jeep enthusiast (we've owned 10 different jeeps over the last 20 years), I'll never call the wrangler a bad choice. That being said, if you aren't going to lift it, never plan on off-roading it, and never plan on removing the top or doors, I think the grand Cherokee is a much better road vehicle. More creature comforts, more power, better handling, quieter ride, more space, etc. We love our 2019 jlu rubicon, but we off road frequently, pull the top when it's nice, and we lifted it and add 37" tires. If you won't use the benefits of the wrangler, why settle for the drawbacks associated?

I take my Wranglers off-road, but I never remove the doors or the top. There is something falling from the sky 300 days of the year around here.

I removed the top a few times but then I was dealing with leaks for the following two weeks. I would happily buy a steel-roofed Wrangler if Jeep made one, as long as it has two solid axles, four coils and 4L.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I take my Wranglers off-road, but I never remove the doors or the top. There is something falling from the sky 300 days of the year around here.

I removed the top a few times but then I was dealing with leaks for the following two weeks. I would happily buy a steel-roofed Wrangler if Jeep made one, as long as it has two solid axles, four coils and 4L.

The solid axles are a benefit offroad and for ease and reliability of modifying. The wrangler is the best choice for an off road rig hands down. It's also the best choice for an open top California (or Florida or any place with nice weather) cruiser. Those are the 2 types of buyers who are generally happy with their wrangler. Those that bought the Sahara to use as their luxury family hauler, those who bought the rubicon simply because it's top of the line and they drive in the snow twice a year, those who drive in icy climates and wanted something that would perform better than their 2wd f150, etc. are the ones who are generally unhappy with their choice. The removable top will be louder than the competition, the solid axle will ride rougher than the competition, the narrow body vs trac width design won't be as spacious inside as the competition, the solid axle won't soak up the ruts like an ifs on or off road at speed. Even if you don't use all of the things that make the wrangler great and unique, you'll be happy if you use some of them. There is a small subset of jeep owners who simply love the look and happily drive their pavement princess on 22's, but they are the exception not the rule. If you just want a harsh weather suv, there are better options than the wrangler in my opinion.

 

[aldo98229]

The solid axles are a benefit offroad and for ease and reliability of modifying. The wrangler is the best choice for an off road rig hands down. It's also the best choice for an open top California (or Florida or any place with nice weather) cruiser. Those are the 2 types of buyers who are generally happy with their wrangler. Those that bought the Sahara to use as their luxury family hauler, those who bought the rubicon simply because it's top of the line and they drive in the snow twice a year, those who drive in icy climates and wanted something that would perform better than their 2wd f150, etc. are the ones who are generally unhappy with their choice. The removable top will be louder than the competition, the solid axle will ride rougher than the competition, the narrow body vs trac width design won't be as spacious inside as the competition, the solid axle won't soak up the ruts like an ifs on or off road at speed. Even if you don't use all of the things that make the wrangler great and unique, you'll be happy if you use some of them. There is a small subset of jeep owners who simply love the look and happily drive their pavement princess on 22's, but they are the exception not the rule. If you just want a harsh weather suv, there are better options than the wrangler in my opinion.

There is a lot of broad generalizations there that are not true.

I have lived in California and in Washington and I have owned Saharas and Rubicons. I have taken my Wranglers to the beach, to the mountains and to the mall. I have gotten stuck in snow, in rocks, in mud and in traffic, both in Rubicons and in Saharas. I have taken long road trips in the middle of winter, both in Rubicons and Saharas, to places like Utah, Montana, Idaho; I was never “unhappy” that I was driving a Wrangler.

Don’t look at the badge on the fender or the sticker on the hood to make all sorts of wild assumptions about the owner of that Jeep. That’s not how any of this works.

“Happiness” does not come from owning the “right” type of Jeep.

 

[roaniecowpony]

I'm with the crowd that says there are a lot better choices for on-road and light off-road. You put up with a lot compromises on creature comforts, handling, etc., to gain the off-road capability of a Jeep. I like the off-road capability of my jeep, but I've had to deal with some issues to get what I wanted.

To me, a Jeep feels like a bit of a vehicle stuck in a time when vehicles were simpler and less refined. For many jeep owners, this is what they are seeking. If that's you, jump in.

If you need the maneuverability of a jeep, but are seeking a bit more on-road focus, possibly the new Bronco might be a better choice. TBD

 

[Zandcwhite]

There is a lot of broad generalizations there that are not true.

I have lived in California and in Washington and I have owned Saharas and Rubicons. I have taken my Wranglers to the beach, to the mountains and to the mall. I have gotten stuck in snow, in rocks, in mud and in traffic, both in Rubicons and in Saharas. I have taken long road trips in the middle of winter, both in Rubicons and Saharas, to places like Utah, Montana, Idaho; I was never “unhappy” that I was driving a Wrangler.

Don’t look at the badge on the fender or the sticker on the hood to make all sorts of wild assumptions about the owner of that Jeep. That’s not how any of this works.

“Happiness” does not come from owning the “right” type of Jeep.

So you actually use your jeep as a jeep, which is my point. Those that are unhappy typically are the ones who bought the jeep for 0 of the reasons that make wranglers worth the compromise. They are less spacious by design, benefit on tight trails, drawback on the street. The solid axle doesn't ride as smooth on the road as ifs, but worth the sacrifice for offroad benefits. The removable top will always be louder than steel competitors. Owning a wrangler soley as a closed top, street vehicle is like owning a prius to deliver bricks. It can be done but there are better options.

 

[aldo98229]

So you actually use your jeep as a jeep, which is my point. Those that are unhappy typically are the ones who bought the jeep for 0 of the reasons that make wranglers worth the compromise. They are less spacious by design, benefit on tight trails, drawback on the street. The solid axle doesn't ride as smooth on the road as ifs, but worth the sacrifice for offroad benefits. The removable top will always be louder than steel competitors. Owning a wrangler soley as a closed top, street vehicle is like owning a prius to deliver bricks. It can be done but there are better options.

That is true, indeed.

I suspect part of the reason is that FCA has been dialing up Wrangler's snob appeal for 10 years. In part to attract first time Jeep buyers.

 

[scottijohn63]

I'm sorry that you have been hassled about your Wrangler choice. I have always found you to be friendly and helpful to everyone. I am thankful for people like you in this forum!

 

[PavementWarrior]

So you actually use your jeep as a jeep, which is my point. Those that are unhappy typically are the ones who bought the jeep for 0 of the reasons that make wranglers worth the compromise. They are less spacious by design, benefit on tight trails, drawback on the street. The solid axle doesn't ride as smooth on the road as ifs, but worth the sacrifice for offroad benefits. The removable top will always be louder than steel competitors. Owning a wrangler soley as a closed top, street vehicle is like owning a prius to deliver bricks. It can be done but there are better options.

Last thing i want from a vehicle that goes deep into outback, is poor reliability. The craptastic stop start double battery design is garbage. Craptastic steering that cant drive in a strait line coming down out of the sierras... no thanks.

high compression engine that pings every summer on the summer blend... going up hills is hilarious, ping ping up, wobble wobble down.

Newer ones are inching closer (new steering boxes, all the steer comps have reved atleast once), but Fiat F@#@ 2018 buyers, period.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Last thing i want from a vehicle that goes deep into outback, is poor reliability. The craptastic stop start double battery design is garbage. Craptastic steering that cant drive in a strait line coming down out of the sierras... no thanks.

high compression engine that pings every summer on the summer blend... going up hills is hilarious, ping ping up, wobble wobble down.

Newer ones are inching closer (new steering boxes, all the steer comps have reved atleast once), but Fiat F@#@ 2018 buyers, period.

Not that it is justified, but the first year of a new model usually has issues across all manufacturers. It's good to see they are working those issues out, and I'd hardly call the steering issues F-ing the customer when the tsb will get it taken care of for free. Our 2019 drives well enough that I haven't rushed down to get the steering box replaced even with the 37's and I'd hardly call a little bit of wandering a reliability issue. The bsg, dual voltage, dual battery set up is another story.

 

[aldo98229]

Sorry but I find the indifference with which FCA addressed the steering problem unforgivable. It took them FOUR model years to finally fix the problem!

For the first 2 years FCA pretended the problem didn’t even exist. You’d waste your time —and drive yourself insane— trying to convince a Jeep dealer that there was a problem with your steering. Then, to assuage mounting customer complaints, FCA issued these “placebo fixes,” like re-flashing the Jeep and, later, replacing the steering stabilizer and the trackbar. But none of these addressed the underlying problem: a poor designed, cheaply made steering box.

This is the kind of indifferent behavior that gave domestic automakers a bad reputation in the 1970s. The fact that it took FCA so long to address something like this in this day and age suggests the company is run by incompetents or negligentes. Not sure which is worse.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Sorry but I find the indifference with which FCA addressed the steering problem unforgivable. It took them FOUR model years to finally fix the problem!

For the first 2 years FCA pretended the problem didn’t even exist. You’d waste your time —and drive yourself insane— trying to convince a Jeep dealer that there was a problem with your steering. Then, to assuage mounting customer complaints, FCA issued these “placebo fixes,” like re-flashing the Jeep and, later, replacing the steering stabilizer and the trackbar. But none of these addressed the underlying problem: a poor designed, cheaply made steering box.

This is the kind of indifferent behavior that gave domestic automakers a bad reputation in the 1970s. The fact that it took FCA so long to address something like this in this day and age suggests the company is run by incompetents or negligentes. Not sure which is worse.

The experience we had with the Ford focus "automatic" transmission was no different. They never admitted it was a shit design, and it took a class action lawsuit to force them to extend the transmission warranty to 150,000 miles. There never was a fix, just a $3k service bill for replacing bent and damaged shift forks until they were forced to warranty their garbage. All the big manufacturers do the same thing, it's not a problem until lawsuits or at least potential lawsuits force their hands. Having owned an 06 superduty that had literally ever problem common to the 6.0 and having owned a 2013 Ford focus mentioned above, Ford is a hard pass for me. Maybe the bronco will be reliable, but it's way too early to say it will be. For the more difficult trails, the wrangler is still setting the bar until somebody proves otherwise.

 

[aldo98229]

The experience we had with the Ford focus "automatic" transmission was no different. They never admitted it was a shit design, and it took a class action lawsuit to force them to extend the transmission warranty to 150,000 miles. There never was a fix, just a $3k service bill for replacing bent and damaged shift forks until they were forced to warranty their garbage. All the big manufacturers do the same thing, it's not a problem until lawsuits or at least potential lawsuits force their hands. Having owned an 06 superduty that had literally ever problem common to the 6.0 and having owned a 2013 Ford focus mentioned above, Ford is a hard pass for me. Maybe the bronco will be reliable, but it's way too early to say it will be. For the more difficult trails, the wrangler is still setting the bar until somebody proves otherwise.

Yes, I keep hearing similar stories about Ford. That was one of the things that turned me off about all-new Bronco.

That, and the fact that I have sat inside new Fords and was disappointed with the quality of the materials, the fit-and-finish and the overall design.

 

[scottijohn63]

Yes, I keep hearing similar stories about Ford. That was one of the things that turned me off about all-new Bronco.

That, and the fact that I have sat inside new Fords and was disappointed with the quality of the materials, the fit-and-finish and the overall design.

I am really impressed with the interior of my Sarah, both the materials and the fit and finish. Ford has been cheeping out on their interiors, like the new Escape and Explorer.

 

[MrBell]

During the first year of ownership my 2019 JL has been towed to the dealer twice for issues due to poor assembly. I'm 12000 miles from the warranty expiring and I can't say I'm inspired.

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