On-Highway Compliance

[Captain Morgan]

I want to thank you all for the input you have given. It certainly is a learning experience. I have decided I am going to air down to 28 or 29 psi cold. I am going to get a 2.5 inch lift with dual steering stabilizers and the Mopar LCAs. I will get the alignment with said camber and keep the tires I have for now. I only have 10,000 miles on the tires so I’m going to run them low. If they wear funny, I’ll just keep rotating them and when they are gone, I’m going to go to a C load. Most likely 285/75’s. That should be enough to smoothen things out. I have been really trying to pay attention to our roads and when it happens the most. I find that it’s the back roads that have uneven wear and are chip and seal composition that are the worst offenders. After working all night on my way home, it can get downright scary.

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[mgroeger]

I want to thank you all for the input you have given. It certainly is a learning experience. I have decided I am going to air down to 28 or 29 psi cold. I am going to get a 2.5 inch lift with dual steering stabilizers and the Mopar LCAs. I will get the alignment with said camber and keep the tires I have for now. I only have 10,000 miles on the tires so I’m going to run them low. If they wear funny, I’ll just keep rotating them and when they are gone, I’m going to go to a C load. Most likely 285/75’s. That should be enough to smoothen things out. I have been really trying to pay attention to our roads and when it happens the most. I find that it’s the back roads that have uneven wear and are chip and seal composition that are the worst offenders. After working all night on my way home, it can get downright scary.

Glad you got a good sense of what to do. I will admit the double steering stabilizer is a bit over kill. The reality is, if a jeep is set up properly and all things like ball joints, track bars, tie rod, draglink are functioning properly you can remove a stabilizer completely. I'm not saying you should drive around without a stabilizer, I'm saying that adding more stabilizers is more of a mask than a solution. However I did have a JL where the previous owner did EVERYTHING and wobble would not go away so he went with a ported steering box and added hydro assist and voila problem solved. Check out Redneck Ram.

 

[LVLAaron]

Dont waste your money on an alignment. The only thing you can adjust is the steering wheel centering (5 minute job with two people) and the toe, which is probably correct... but you can check that yourself too

 

[Zeddy]

Mine had more death wobble and tracking issues stock. Since lifted it rides incredible. Take it to an offroad shop that can properly set the caster

 

[Ratbert]

The drama over E rated tires is the most overrated thing I consistently see in the Jeep forums. Lower the psi. You won't see accelerated wear because the sidewalls are stiff.

You're thinking a stiff sidewall somehow keeps the pressure across the face of the tire equal when running low pressure?

 

[3TV]

Wheel diameter has nothing to do with better ride or tracking. Those are all traits related to tire design.

Except that tire design has to follow wheel design if you get the wrong wheels. Tires that are susceptible to tram tracking the most are wide tires that have short stiff sidewalls. So, assuming an equal height tire a 20x10 wheel and the tire that goes on it would be more susceptible to tram tracking than a 17x8 1/2 wheel and the tire that goes on that wheel.

 

[Zandcwhite]

You're thinking a stiff sidewall somehow keeps the pressure across the face of the tire equal when running low pressure?

I was using large pressure changes to prove the point that you can find a pressure that will ride the similar between a C rated and an F rated tire. If you look at the actual load charts, a C rated 285/75r17 toyo as an example supports the same weight in a C rated at4 at 32 psi as an E rated does at 27psi. The difference isn't that big. The charts start at 22psi for a reason (you can safely run on the street at that pressure assuming the load capacity is sufficient). That same E rated tire will still support 2050lbs at 22psi, plenty for a JLU. The C rated needs 27psi to do the same. Even if you like the brick hard ride of the stock tires at 37psi, you only need 31psi in the F rated tire to match it. Tire pressure matters a lot as far as ride and there's a whole bunch of room for adjustment... according to the people who make the tires.

 

[Ratbert]

I was using large pressure changes to prove the point that you can find a pressure that will ride the similar between a C rated and an F rated tire. If you look at the actual load charts, a C rated 285/75r17 toyo as an example supports the same weight in a C rated at4 at 32 psi as an E rated does at 27psi. The difference isn't that big. The charts start at 22psi for a reason (you can safely run on the street at that pressure assuming the load capacity is sufficient). That same E rated tire will still support 2050lbs at 22psi, plenty for a JLU. The C rated needs 27psi to do the same. Even if you like the brick hard ride of the stock tires at 37psi, you only need 31psi in the F rated tire to match it. Tire pressure matters a lot as far as ride and there's a whole bunch of room for adjustment... according to the people who make the tires.

Understood, but there's an optimal pressure for each tire where its face is evenly pressing against the road. When you deviate from that point you're negatively impacting the tire's ability to grab the road. And obviously impacting how evenly they wear across the face.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Understood, but there's an optimal pressure for each tire where its face is evenly pressing against the road. When you deviate from that point you're negatively impacting the tire's ability to grab the road. And obviously impacting how evenly they wear across the face.

I think there's an optimal range, and even there is load dependent, is affected by rim width, and if you're talking grip it's far lower than most oems recommend and most people run. Those door pressures are more about maximum mpg, which is about the opposite of maximum grip. You don't want to be so low that the tires wear poorly, but that's a very low pressure before you get into that. You don't want to be so low that the sidewall are folding when cornering, but again that's way lower than people think. You also don't want to be so over inflated that you're riding on only the center tread. There you'll likely see the best fuel economy, but you'll have poor traction and wear as a result. We drove all the way home (1,100) from moab at 20 psi in nearly new Yokohama geolander x-mts in a 37x12 50r17 D rated. No weird handling or poor wear characteristics. Put another 40k miles on those tires wheeling all over the country and roadtripping to do so. There goes any idea about wear, sidewall damage from heat, or any other internet warnings about tire pressures in real world experience. It's pretty easy to play around with pressures and find a balance between ride, handling, and wear in my experience and the "optimal" window is pretty large.

 

[LSJKU]

Glad you got a good sense of what to do. I will admit the double steering stabilizer is a bit over kill. The reality is, if a jeep is set up properly and all things like ball joints, track bars, tie rod, draglink are functioning properly you can remove a stabilizer completely. I'm not saying you should drive around without a stabilizer, I'm saying that adding more stabilizers is more of a mask than a solution. However I did have a JL where the previous owner did EVERYTHING and wobble would not go away so he went with a ported steering box and added hydro assist and voila problem solved. Check out Redneck Ram.

Roanie Cowponie proved this a few years ago when upgrading his drag link/tie rod setup. Drove it at highway speeds with no stabilizer after his upgrades and he's still alive to post on this forum today. I think....

 

[zouch]

i didn't catch what year your J**p is or how many miles are on it.

i'd start with making sure everything is solid; throwing more parts randomly at something that has a problem isn't likely to solve the problem unless you just happen to get lucky.
get under the front end while someone wiggles the steering wheel back and forth and look for any joint where ends aren't moving simultaneously. you may benefit from (carefully!) putting a hand on a junction to determine if anything moves on one side of a joint more than another; if it does it's time for attention there. Track Bars, Tie Rods and Drag Link joints are all likely culprits.
make sure you do not still have the aluminum steering box. if you do, you may still be eligible for a free replacement.
then, ball joints if you have any miles on them, since the plastic bits in the stock ones suck and wear out very quickly.

steering stabilizers mask problems; if you have everything tight, you don't need one at all unless you want to change the resistance you feel turning the steering wheel.
you most definitely do not need a dual stabilizer setup, especially for the kind of use you've described; any good thru-shaft design should work for you.

if you're going to get new LCAs, skip the Mopar version and get yourself something adjustable. the Mopars may not get your Negative Caster out far enough to make an appreciable difference, and will not be able to accommodate the changes you may (will!) make in the future.

I want to thank you all for the input you have given. It certainly is a learning experience. I have decided I am going to air down to 28 or 29 psi cold. I am going to get a 2.5 inch lift with dual steering stabilizers and the Mopar LCAs. I will get the alignment with said camber and keep the tires I have for now. I only have 10,000 miles on the tires so I’m going to run them low. If they wear funny, I’ll just keep rotating them and when they are gone, I’m going to go to a C load. Most likely 285/75’s. That should be enough to smoothen things out. I have been really trying to pay attention to our roads and when it happens the most. I find that it’s the back roads that have uneven wear and are chip and seal composition that are the worst offenders. After working all night on my way home, it can get downright scary.

 

[_olllllllo_]

Sorry, I was thinking of


Sorry, I was thinking solid axle, but typed Independant Suspension. I’m running 17x8.5 wheels on 255/80 Falken Wildpeak AT4W’s I have them set at 33psi cold but they warm to 36psi. I drive straight level and long. 111 miles of highway each way. I realize I’m probably stupid for buying this vehicle type for my drive, but it is such a fun one.

I have driven a lot of highways miles on my Rubicon. They are not as smooth and as soft as a standard car, but they are a hell of a lot more fun to drive. I just took a car to my daughter and drover 815 miles in a day. That thing was so smooth, but had the personality of a catatonic psych ward patient.

I think airing down will help the straight line wandering and provide more compliance in the tire and improve the ride.

 

[LSJKU]

I have driven a lot of highways miles on my Rubicon. They are not as smooth and as soft as a standard car, but they are a hell of a lot more fun to drive. I just took a car to my daughter and drover 815 miles in a day. That thing was so smooth, but had the personality of a catatonic psych ward patient.

I think airing down will help the straight line wandering and provide more compliance in the tire and improve the ride.

LMAO!!! Having the "personality of a catatonic psych ward patient," a Jeep is not. Maybe my wife's Lexus RX350, but not our JL!

 

[Heimkehr]

I just took a car to my daughter and drover 815 miles in a day. That thing was so smooth, but had the personality of a catatonic psych ward patient.

My wife's Honda has a similar personality. While not catatonic during long drives, it does suggest the recent ingestion of a quality indica.

 

[LSJKU]

My wife's Honda has a similar personality. While not catatonic during long drives, it does suggest the recent ingestion of a quality indica.

You guys have me rolling around on the ground! All I can muster is "thank goodness for Jeep," I love a vehicle that requires a little more driver input than being comatose. Reminds me of my old 911 in certain ways....

And never forget; a good sativa with your morning coffee, indica only in the evenings.

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