MS-12991 RECOMMENDED; API SN REQUIRED

[Deleted User 38384]

https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/recommended-vs-required-oil-spec.24243/

Definitely worth the read!!!!

TC in that link makes a really good point,
"My point is just that even in their printed materials the only requirement is for API SN. They simply recommend MS-12991."

Something tells me we are going about this all wrong. I agree with that guy, especially when it comes to warranties and the legal side of it, words do matter. In fact wording can be confusing and sometimes that's just what they're aiming for. But the way they wrote it, they can only deny a warranty claim if you don't use API SN.

Thoughts?

You ask me, I think the cat's out of the bag now!

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[stumblinhorse]

https://5thgenrams.com/community/threads/recommended-vs-required-oil-spec.24243/

Definitely worth the read!!!!

TC in that link makes a really good point,
"My point is just that even in their printed materials the only requirement is for API SN. They simply recommend MS-12991."

Something tells me we are going about this all wrong. I agree with that guy, especially when it comes to warranties and the legal side of it, words do matter. In fact wording can be confusing and sometimes that's just what they're aiming for. But the way they wrote it, they can only deny a warranty claim if you don't use API SN.

Thoughts?

You ask me, I think the cat's out of the bag now!

The wording is pretty standard because if they require something very specific they are required to provide free of charge. Magnuson-Moss warranty act…

 

[grimmjeeper]

Oh boy. Another oil thread... ?

I can't wait for the self proclaimed experts to chime in.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Oh boy. Another oil thread... ?

I can't wait for the self proclaimed experts to chime in.

It's a good point though. Everybody seems to think that you have to have a MS-12991 rated oil for the EcoDiesel, The fact that it does say this in my 2021 user manual means that I just went from being able to use a handful of different approved oils to a lot of different approved oils.

Though it doesn't make the 3.0 pinned topic of MS-12991 oils unnecessary, it definitely warrants a sub-list including the API SN only oils.

I posted this photo in a different thread...

Though this product is not a MS-12991 oil, it is a API SN oil. Meaning you can actually use it in your EcoDiesel with zero issues.

This is a good thing because not only doesn't open up the options to less expensive options for EcoDiesel owners, it also opens up options across multiple different brands meaning you can get both better quality oils in your EcoDiesel and also lesser quality.

 

[grimmjeeper]

Are you trying to convince others or just trying to rationalize your own opinion?

 

[Plongson]

40k miles on the JLURD with Rotella T6. I also use Rotella oil in all my other diesels and Rotella in the Harley...it is widely used around here. And it's not too bad on oatmeal! LOL

When it comes to oil, read the story of Chicken Little (unless it's been banned by WOKE)

 

[ChuckQue]

Are you trying to convince others or just trying to rationalize your own opinion?

He brings up a fair argument. I realize oil has been discussed heavily and the horse is well beaten to death, but rarely have I seen anyone bring up the point of recommended vs. required.

I’m personally going to run the recommended spec oil. However, if someone were to use something that meets the required spec only, how could that void their warranty?

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Are you trying to convince others or just trying to rationalize your own opinion?

It's not my opinion guy, it's a requirement from FCA, and an added recommendation.

Not my problem if you don't like it, however if you don't agree, just read your user manual. You'll see what I'm talking about.

This thread was intended to be an informative topic. I had long thought that it has to have the MS - 12991 requirements met to go into the EcoDiesel engine. It seems there's a lot of people on here who seem to think that you have to have the MS - 12991 certified oil to not void your warranty. But that's a misinterpretation of FCAs requirements. That's the whole reason that this topic was posted by me, was because the wording is very misleading. And I'm sure they intended it that way. But the fact the matter is you only need API SN oil to meet the requirements provided by FCA.

I mean I can't put this in many more words. At this point I'm repeating myself. If you can't understand that, I guess there's no hope for you. Read your owner's manual, if you have something to add other than hearsay, come back please. Otherwise all you're doing is tearing down an extremely helpful topic. Not everyone knows this, I didn't until yesterday.

 

[jaymz]

MS 12991 is most likely just marketing BS. FCA, Stellantis - whoever, picked an oil that worked, created their “spec”, and charge oil companies a licensing fee to be able to market their oil as meeting the requirements for that spec.

GM did that with the “Dexos” oil, and I’m sure every other vehicle manufacturer does the same thing as well.

 

[grimmjeeper]

He brings up a fair argument. I realize oil has been discussed heavily and the horse is well beaten to death, but rarely have I seen anyone bring up the point of recommended vs. required.

I’m personally going to run the recommended spec oil. However, if someone were to use something that meets the required spec only, how could that void their warranty?

Notice that I still haven't asserted whether the source is right or wrong. You and others are assuming I am disagreeing when I'm not taking a side either way.

People on the internet fighting over semantics, with a whole lot of assertion based on opinion and anecdotes, is par for the course when it comes to oil discussion.

Run whatever you want.

I'm commenting on the fact that it's been a while since we have had an oil thread and how comical they are.

 

[ChuckQue]

Notice that I still haven't asserted whether the source is right or wrong.

People on the internet fighting over semantics, with a whole lot of assertion based on opinion and anecdotes, is par for the course when it comes to oil discussion.

Run whatever you want.

I'm commenting on the fact that it's been a while since we have had an oil thread and how comical they are.

Well, we have to talk about something! It’s either this or oil temps, vane whistling, mpg or if it can handle 37’s without a regear…. ?

 

[Almost]

Adding the exact wording from my 2022 JT manual with emphasis on the last part as well.

"We recommend using Mopar® API Certified SAE 5W-40 Full Synthetic Engine Oil which meets the requirements of the manufacturer Material Standard MS-12991 and API SN or SP capable. Equivalent full synthetic SAE 5W-40 engine oil can be used but must have the API Donut trademark"

I would have to agree - it does look like API SN or SP is the only real requirement here. Now down the rabbit hole to see what else I can run.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

I said this 3 years ago. 1st page of the oil thread list.

List of Chrysler MS-12991 Engine Oil for the 3.0 EcoDiesel Jeep Wrangler

Engine Oil With Filter 3.0L Turbo Diesel Engine (SAE 5W-40 Synthetic, API SN) 9 Quarts 8.5 Liters

^^^That's what I'm going to pay attention to.


If I find a deal on this oil they talk about here, I'll run it;



But I'm not going to pay a ridiculous premium for it. I'll stick with an API SN oil that will work in all of my rigs. And as they update and change certifications and engine oil requirements I'll keep going for the oil that will work in the majority of my rigs.

And currently while I still have one more 5 gallon bucket left that is Mobil Delvac 1 ESP.

IIRC I tried to enlighten folks, but it didn't work.
ETA: Not here. I think I was going back and forth with a guy on a different forum.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

I said this 3 years ago. 1st page of the oil thread list.

List of Chrysler MS-12991 Engine Oil for the 3.0 EcoDiesel Jeep Wrangler



IIRC I tried to enlighten folks, but it didn't work.
ETA: Not here. I think I was going back and forth with a guy on a different forum.

That sounds about nice guy. There's a lot of good information here, but you kind of have to look for it. It's a crowd, always a good time on this forum. But yeah everybody's got an opinion and wants to prove you wrong.

I figure if my thread helps two people, that's good enough for me.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

That sounds about nice guy. There's a lot of good information here, but you kind of have to look for it. It's a crowd, always a good time on this forum. But yeah everybody's got an opinion and wants to prove you wrong.

I figure if my thread helps two people, that's good enough for me.

Absolutely. My post was more to show exasperation. Your thread should be great to get the word out.

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