M/T a bit frustrating

[NewJLU2019]

You’re right on the money 8flat. To be safe when backing up a hill you should take it slow which in turn causes the clutch to sometimes slip a little. I’ve been there, it’s not fun knowing your clutch disc’s slipped because you can smell it. With that being said, 805dirtdog had it right. When I go to my brothers house he has a steep driveway and I prefer to back in at daylight so as to drive out at night. After slipping the clutch once, 4 low and zero slippage.

Hey sf5211, this is Curtis and I told you I would let you know when I went Topless in 30-degree weather. We had our first Real cold front down here in Texas and I went topless this morning with light Jacket on in 35-degree temps. Some people looked at me like I was nuts but man I love the cold !!! Can't wait to take doors off next. I am about to order some Halfdoors off Vicious Off-Road website.

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[rickyrobert]

Love mine. It's got the rpms there for a reason. Just stay a gear lower than you think you need. If you wanna feel a lack of torque, drive my 05 sentra with a 5spd and about 100 horsepower to the crank. Gotta shift that sucker at 5500. I also have a 1972 cj5 on stock axles, and 31 m/ts and the 232 i6, 3 spd manual. So, my JL feels pretty dang good to me. I also towed 1500lbs on a small flat deck trailer, and it felt perfectly acceptable to me. Before this, I had a 2017 F-150 Crew Cab 6.5ft Bed 5.0 f150. Whilst its not as crazy fast as that, nor as torquey, its not slow.

 

[rickyrobert]

And to anyone thinking about getting the manual, for on-road, mild/moderate offroading, towing, and daily driving, do it. It is a joy to drive, and doesn't at all feel bad with the 3.6. It feels every bit as good as the several sports cars I've had, probably better.

 

[Litfuse]

And to anyone thinking about getting the manual, for on-road, mild/moderate offroading, towing, and daily driving, do it. It is a joy to drive, and doesn't at all feel bad with the 3.6. It feels every bit as good as the several sports cars I've had, probably better.

Geez, what kind of sports cars have you owned?

 

[DanW]

Geez, what kind of sports cars have you owned?

Well, my nephew is a drag racer and drives a Civic Type R. (He owns a company that builds 400+ horsepower Honda drag racing engines.) He says the JL's six speed is outstanding and said he was surprised at just how good it is.

My daughter's boyfriend has a BMW M3 and I can tell you I much prefer the shifter in the JL. It is MUCH smoother, although the throw is certainly longer. I've said before that the clutch feels as good to me as my brother's Camaro ZL1 1LE.

It's all opinion, but I still think the JL is among the smoothest and best feeling manuals I've driven, and I've driven all of the above cars. Btw, the Camaro and Civic Type R are both run on the track every month, so the drivers aren't the sports car equivalent of mall crawlers.

Don't like the manual? Get the auto. I'm told it is one of the best autos out there, too.

 

[Litfuse]

Well, my nephew is a drag racer and drives a Civic Type R. (He owns a company that builds 400+ horsepower Honda drag racing engines.) He says the JL's six speed is outstanding and said he was surprised at just how good it is.

My daughter's boyfriend has a BMW M3 and I can tell you I much prefer the shifter in the JL. It is MUCH smoother, although the throw is certainly longer. I've said before that the clutch feels as good to me as my brother's Camaro ZL1 1LE.

It's all opinion, but I still think the JL is among the smoothest and best feeling manuals I've driven, and I've driven all of the above cars. Btw, the Camaro and Civic Type R are both run on the track every month, so the drivers aren't the sports car equivalent of mall crawlers.

Don't like the manual? Get the auto. I'm told it is one of the best autos out there, too.

You can’t get much better than the shifter feel than the Type R. I almost bought one, but ended up getting a new Vette. I have no trouble with the clutch feel on the Wrangler. However, I still think the shifter feels vague and fragile. Not as vague as the JK, so it is a big improvement. My biggest gripe is the oem tune. If FCA could fix the tune or some aftermarket options came available, I could probably live with the manual transmission. I test drove an auto, and it just doesn’t seem right to have an auto in a wrangler.

 

[entropy]

Nooooooo way. Get out.

The auto transmission on the JL is an engineering marvel. It is the perfect example of technology saying "time to move on". I've always been a manual transmission guy myself, until I tried the JL 8-speed. Time to move on. I was decided on a manual transmission until I drove the auto and did research on the reliability and performance of that transmission, my wife was very happy when I said "well, I guess manual days are gone".

 

[AnnDee4444]

For anyone wanting the manual, but are worried after reading forum posts, don't listen. It is a great tranny and is super fun to drive. I'm of the opinion that real jeeps have an I-6, but even with the dismal low end torque of the pentastar the fun factor is still very high. That's why we have low range.

The 3.6 actually has more low-end torque than the 4.0.
If you are interested, I graphed out what the road force would look like with a 4.0 in the JLR: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2-0-turbo-vs-pentastar-v6.22809/page-11#post-870456

 

[DanW]

The 3.6 actually has more low-end torque than the 4.0.
If you are interested, I graphed out what the road force would look like with a 4.0 in the JLR: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2-0-turbo-vs-pentastar-v6.22809/page-11#post-870456

Hey, leave the facts out of this! There is no place for them in this discussion!

 

[805Dirtdog]

The 3.6 actually has more low-end torque than the 4.0.
If you are interested, I graphed out what the road force would look like with a 4.0 in the JLR: https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/2-0-turbo-vs-pentastar-v6.22809/page-11#post-870456

I don't know if it's the tune, weight, or other factors but the 4 liters (and 4.2) I've wheeled felt much more able to keep pulling at extremely low rpms. More of the seat-of-the-pants analysis.

 

[DanW]

I don't know if it's the tune, weight, or other factors but the 4 liters (and 4.2) I've wheeled felt much more able to keep pulling at extremely low rpms. More of the seat-of-the-pants analysis.

Only pulling 3200 lbs is the biggest factor, but an inline six with pushrods is probably more able to handle lugging at VERY low rpm's better than a DOHC V6, but not many revs are needed for the 3.6 to even the score and then quickly pull way ahead. Put that 3.6 in a TJ or even a YJ and it would be like spinach to Popeye, though, and would rip the seat of the pants right off. The 4.0 doesn't compare to the 3.6 in power, anywhere in the band, if on a level playing field. Worse yet, let the 4.0 try to tug around a JLUR. It would be overmatched and would feel like a dog.

Nothing against the 4.0. It was a great engine in its day and served well in the JK's (Correctin, YJ's) and TJ's. It tugged those little lightweight Jeeps around without much effort. Still, it isn't really fair to the 4.0 to compare it to a much more modern and powerful engine.

I suppose @Jeepcity will be along to tell me my genes, number of children, my wife's maiden name or my favorite color invalidates the data. He really does his homework on stuff like that.

 

[SecondTJ]

Nothing against the 4.0. It was a great engine in its day and served well in the JK's and TJ's.

The 4.0 I6 never made into the JK. It died with TJ.

 

[AnnDee4444]

Obviously you have no real world experience .

Please elaborate.

Fake Torque numbers . Did you make these up Dan ? Last time you posted 3.8 numbers as 3.6 . Find the real ones .

I'm the one that posted the graph. And no, I did not make up the torque numbers for the 3.6. They came from here: https://www.automobile-catalog.com/...p_wrangler_4-door_sport_3_6_v6_automatic.html

RPM Torque
1000 119
1100 135.3
1200 148.7
1300 160.2
1400 170
1500 178.5
1600 185.9
1700 192.5
1800 198.4
1900 203.5
2000 208.3
2100 212.5
2200 216.4
2300 219.9
2400 223.2
2500 226.1
2600 228.8
2700 231.4
2800 233.8
2900 236
3000 238
3100 239.9
3200 241.7
3300 243.4
3400 245
3500 246.5
3600 247.9
3700 249.3
3800 250.5
3900 251.8
4000 252.9
4100 254
4200 255
4300 256
4400 256.9
4500 257.8
4600 258.7
4700 259.5
4800 260.3 = Maximum Torque
4900 260.3
5000 259.9
5100 259.4
5200 258.7
5300 257.7
5400 256.6
5500 255.2
5600 253.7
5700 251.9
5800 250
5900 247.8
6000 245.4
6100 242.8
6200 240
6300 237
6400 233.8 = Maximum HP (6400 x 233.8 = 285 HP)
6500 229.3
6600 223.1

 

[AnnDee4444]

I don't know if it's the tune, weight, or other factors but the 4 liters (and 4.2) I've wheeled felt much more able to keep pulling at extremely low rpms. More of the seat-of-the-pants analysis.

I've never driven a manual Jeep I-6, but I do have some experience with a few auto 4.0 XJs and I agree that they have awesome off-idle throttle response. I've also never driven a 3.6 manual JL either, but I do and know that factory DBW tuning seems to always leave something to be desired. The graph I posted reflects only the peak numbers which could probably only be achieved through WOT (or near WOT). Going WOT is definitely not desirable when off-roading, especially when combined with the rev-hang that is also programmed in.

Another difference could be the overall weight and general size of the wheel/tire/axles. None of the XJs I drove ever had 33s or Dana 44s, and the curb weight was much lighter when compared to the JL (XJ = 3,031–3,664 lbs, JL = 4,076 - 4,290 lbs).

 

[DanW]

The 4.0 I6 never made into the JK. It died with TJ.

Sorry, I meant YJ's. I know the JK has the 3.8. I drive one every day. Thanks for the catch.

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