Looking grim for Stellantis

[legacy_etu]

Ditching Tavares would be a good start IMO. Too EU focused and it seems like North American market profits are being siphoned off to finance Alfa Romeo, Maserati brands while neglecting to reinvest in Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep. Someone tell me, what did it cost for Alfa Romeo to sponsor an F1 team? Was that a good use of corporate money?

Also, it's the prices , dummy.

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[TheRaven]

Who is this mass voting block "they"?

The word "they" appears in contracted form twice in the post you quoted, and both times it refers to full-size trucks. They don't vote, as far as I know.

 

[ceddy]

I think an easy solution for jeep is to include more content. You can buy a 80k wrangler in Canada without heated seats. Makes zero sense.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

https://qz.com/stellantis-sales-profits-earnings-jeep-cars-1851627703

I'm kind of let down there's not a spreadsheet in that article. For an article titled "STELLANTIS SALES PROFITS EARNINGS..." There's not a whole lot of useful information in there. Percentages are cool and all, but let's get some actual numbers which paint a factual picture.

Jeep has been failing for a while, but I haven't seen anything near as dire as what would make a company that big change their ways. A few years of bad sales in a poor economy just scream GOVERNMENT BAILOUT.

I haven't seen anything yet that makes me think we're going to get the old Jeep back. If anything I'd say we're a good decade away from any sort of real change in the opposite direction that they have been headed.

Companies don't like to admit defeat. More than likely, they'll probably just cut out the models that aren't selling as much and introduce new ones that will. So if anything you can probably look forward to them replacing the Wrangler here before too long.

 

[CdnJeepDan]

I think an easy solution for jeep is to include more content. You can buy a 80k wrangler in Canada without heated seats. Makes zero sense.

The way the summers have been going up here in Canada the last couple of years, I want cooled and ventilated seats far more than heated seats... Goofy thing is their heated seat supplier (Katskin) is the one that offers their cooled and ventilated aftermarket seat systems.

Why isn't heated and ventilated seats a standard option on a CDN$90K vehicle?

 

[ceddy]

Not sure ventilated seats are possible in the wrangler.

 

[KCSgtMaj]

Europeans just don’t understand Americans. Look at InBev, Harley Davidson. Besides the whole of the auto industry is hurting. The mfgs bought into the government EV debacle, trying to cover those losses with increases in prices of ICE vehicles. It would just be better if the government would stop meddling in economics, and everything else, if the customer doesn’t want the product there’s no enticement that will work. And in the United States you just can’t force the shit down our throats without the GP biting back. Just my opinion. But all mfgs are hurting and there doesn’t seem to be any relief in sight.
Just saw a story today about a massive fire at the Rivian plant. Vehicles a blaze. EV’s are not the future, at least not for the masses.

 

[Punkn89]

The way the summers have been going up here in Canada the last couple of years, I want cooled and ventilated seats far more than heated seats... Goofy thing is their heated seat supplier (Katskin) is the one that offers their cooled and ventilated aftermarket seat systems.

Why isn't heated and ventilated seats a standard option on a CDN$90K vehicle?

I second this, BUT it would only drive the price up even more. You’re better off getting a ZR2/AT4X with ventilated seats for much cheaper. My GC WK2 has them and they have been great this summer.

 

[Windshieldfarmer]

The problem for Stellantis is that the Jeep Wrangler has long been a huge profit margin product…cheap to produce relative to the sales price. They have been reluctant to discount via huge rebates or factory incentives because said discounts are difficult to remove one started…especially on an increasingly obsolete product. Not sure what the CEO can realistically do in the short term to reverse the situation. Improving quality and reliability is a long term process involving engineering, suppliers, and labor. If stock prices continue to decline and layoffs ensue I would think there would be motivation for change. Unfortunately the snowball is rolling downhill…

 

[2nd 392]

Europeans just don’t understand Americans. Look at InBev, Harley Davidson. Besides the whole of the auto industry is hurting. The mfgs bought into the government EV debacle, trying to cover those losses with increases in prices of ICE vehicles. It would just be better if the government would stop meddling in economics, and everything else, if the customer doesn’t want the product there’s no enticement that will work. And in the United States you just can’t force the shit down our throats without the GP biting back. Just my opinion. But all mfgs are hurting and there doesn’t seem to be any relief in sight.
Just saw a story today about a massive fire at the Rivian plant. Vehicles a blaze. EV’s are not the future, at least not for the masses.

With the percentage of Wranglers sold being 4Xe’s I would say the bribes, inventory restrictions in 40% of the states, combined with the other market manipulation has worked quite well, actually.

for overall sales, not so much.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Just throwing this out there because I have some background for the sake of comparison.


My 2022 2-door Base with:
Cyber Orange Tri-Coat Metallic Paint
2.7L
Sasquatch
Heavy Duty Front Bumper
Brush Guard
Aux Switches
$41,990 sticker

The most similar I can get now is a 2024 2-door Big Bend with:
2.3L (2.7 no longer an option)
Azure Grey Tri-Coat Metallic Paint
Sasquatch
Heavy Duty Front Bumper
Brush Guard
Aux Switches
$53,090 sticker - The 2.7L was a $1,895 (I think) upcharge over the 2.3L in 2022. The Big Bend now comes with a 12" screen vs. the 8" in mine. Other than that, apples to apples.

That's $11,100 in 2 years ($12,990 assuming the 2.7 was still an option).

The cheapest Bronco I can build is still $41,520. Insane considering what I paid for mine with the Sasquatch package. The cheapest Wrangler I can build is $31,890. That's still a lot of money considering the value of my '22 Bronco with Sasquatch, mainly due to the 4WD system it provides. Front and rear lockers with 4H, 4L, 4A, and Trail One Pedal - that's a lot for a simple package addition to a Base model.

I don't disagree, but it's a problem for both Ford and Jeep (and others; this is not just a Ford or Jeep issue)--they are driving customers to the upper packages making if difficult if not impossible to compare between packages. This is why I did a 1:1 between 2019/2024 Rubicon and 2023/2024 Wildtrak vs trying to compare non-existent models which does not allow for a current comparison.

Both companies should minimize the number of models. For example, in 2022, Jeep had 13 models:

Sport
Willys Sport
Sport S
Willys
Sport Altitude
Sahara
Sport RHD
Sahara Altitude
High Tide
High Altitude
4xe
Rubicon
Rubicon 392

It seems they may have listened because they reduced to 10ish (leaving out the variations of the 4xe except High Altitude):

Sport
Sport S
Willys
Rubicon
Sahara
Rubicon X
Rubicon 392
Rubicon 392 Final Edition
4xe Sport, Sport S, Willys, Rubicon, Sahara, Rubicon X
4xe High Altitude


In 2024, Ford has:

Big Bend
Black Diamond
Outer Banks
Heritage Edition
Badlands
Everglades
Wildtrak
Heritage Limited Edition
Raptor

While I get the whole market share part and attempt to gain maximum saturation, it is just another way to "hide" costs and make it more difficult for the customer base to find "the" model without having to make concessions or accept unwanted options (i.e. increased cost).

 

[Mark75H]

Anyone who thinks this is unique to Stellantis and Jeep is fooling themselves. The whole of the corporate world is running scared right now.

Every major corporation I know of has cut back physical maintenance staff to a level that cannot actually maintain their physical plants. They completely do not understand the potential consequences. Eventually there will be cascading failures that take corporations down because someone unplugged the wrong extension cord or the wrong 2 people took PTO at the same time.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Anyone who thinks this is unique to Stellantis and Jeep is fooling themselves. The whole of the corporate world is running scared right now.

Every major corporation I know of has cut back physical maintenance staff to a level that cannot actually maintain their physical plants. They completely do not understand the potential consequences. Eventually there will be cascading failures that take corporations down because someone unplugged the wrong extension cord or the wrong 2 people took PTO at the same time.

I agree--but some companies (not Stellantis) appear to be better positioned to "ride it out". Stellantis keeps chasing higher profits while pushing lower quality vehicles which are far less reliable than their prior vehicles.

Jeep Rubicon for $71K with an unreliable (enough posts on this forum alone about 3.6L issues) combined with an extremely dated design? Hard pass...

 

[John VonJeep]

Jeep is pretty dumb about many things.

For instance, the 2024 Willys is basically a whole new trim, with only the loosest connection to the pre-2024 Willys. The 2024 is an “overlander special” with its (2023) Rubi axles, 4.10 gears, rear locker, etc. But how many people outside of this forum realize how different it is? I’m guessing very few. So Jeep offered something cool and then didn’t really tell anyone about it. Genius.

 

[Nitehawk92]

I tried to build a 2024 as close as I could to my 2019 (need to deduct about $2500 from the 2024 for the disparity in options). Everything has gone up in price but, is more or less the same Wrangler worth a $2,200 increase per year or a $12,000 total increase for 5 years?

Truth be told--none of them are especially any from the Big 3.

2019 Rubicon = $57,950

2024 Rubicon = $69,370

Not picking at you, but did you really need leather seats? Heated seats? Cargo Tub liner? Door Sill guards? Floor mats? Trimming those options would have significantly reduced the cost of your Jeep. In a lot of cases, peoples Jeep are going up in price because of the options they have selected. I bought a lot of options that I didn't need, but I wanted, so I understandIf you were to add those options after you got the Jeep, it would have saved money.

Oof, anyone who buys a new Jeep for 70k (not equipped with 392) has a serious addiction/problem .

And then spends $30,000 in upgrades before the Jeep even arrives. Then they complain about how expensive Jeeps have become...

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