Looking For Input on Modifications (Concluded)

[JasonInDLH]

33s are the stock size on JL Rubicons. I, and many people, just throw on 35s with no lift (Rubicons) and it works great.

Earlier today while I was looking at Rubicon’s I saw that they had 33’s and I was like “say wha?!” Hard to believe my old 93 YJ took a 4” lift to barely fit 33’s.

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[JasonInDLH]

Okay...thanks for everyone’s input here! I’ve decided to go with a quality smaller lift like you all suggested:

Will be looking for a 2018 Unlimited Rubicon.

3.5” Rock Krawler No Limits Kit (to take advantage of the Rubicon electric sway bar disconnect).

And going with 37” tires as opposed to the 38’s. Will stick with the stock Rubicon axles and 4.10 gears until they break. Then I’ll swap em for Dana 60’s.

I believe that concludes this thread. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Huehue80]

Okay...thanks for everyone’s input here! I’ve decided to go with a quality smaller lift like you all suggested:

Will be looking for a 2018 Unlimited Rubicon.

3.5” Rock Krawler No Limits Kit (to take advantage of the Rubicon electric sway bar disconnect).

And going with 37” tires as opposed to the 38’s. Will stick with the stock Rubicon axles and 4.10 gears until they break. Then I’ll swap em for Dana 60’s.

I believe that concludes this thread. Thanks again for all the help!

jason,

There is so much you can do with a JLU.

I Run a MC 3.5 game changer lift. Stock D44 with 40’s. I have upgraded the gears and axle shafts. 5.38 to give it more get up and go as I do drive on the freeway. I did need to trim the rear wheel area but just a little. Also separated the fenders for more room for the tires. I only wheel in Moab and sand hollow so only rock crawling no mud.

I too had a93 YJ before my JL and have no regrets, good luck with your build.

 

[Kreepin1]

Great! Thanks for such a great response! Glad you mentioned about the Sport and going with Dana 60’s as I thought about it, but assumed it would be cheaper to do the Rubicon.

The cheapest thing is to find a used Jeep built like you want. It is crazy expensive to build a trail rig; bumpers, winch, cb/gmrs radio, skid plates, it all adds up. Normally I would suggest looking for an older vehicle, but the JL has a full rollcage unlike previous models so it makes a better start for a family trail rig. That said, you will be amazed at where an Unlimited Rubicon on 35" mud tires will go. I based my response on your statement that 38" tires were non-negotiable. Keep in mind that the most expensive path is to build up a Rubicon and then find you need to swap to Dana 60's. I've seen this happen many times.

Let's compare prices:
$31,900 - 2019 Sport Unlimited with 3.6 and auto
$17,325 - Northridge Dana 60 package, 5.38, eLockers, driveshafts, steering, everything you need
$ 2,500 - Clayton premium 3.5" lift (not saying it's best, just to estimate price)
$ 2,857 - NWT tire package, 38" Mud Grapplers on Moto wheels
-------
$54, 582

$48,992 at Lenz Trucks in Minocqua
2019 Rubicon Unlimited with 3.6, auto, Mopar beadlocks with 35" Grabbers and some type of lift

You can absolutely do the lift and axle install with the help of a friend or two. The difference in capability is absolutely worth the six grand difference in price. Especially if you consider that 1) the difference in price is due to a quality lift and wheel/tires which you are probably going to replace anyway and 2) the Sport option leaves you room to grow.

Would you truss the Dana 60?

No. Dana 60's are so much stronger in every respect.

What about all this talk about new control arms?

Cheap lifts keep the lower factory control arms. This reduces caster and causes steering issues just like that wheel on the shopping cart that goes crazy. Adjustable lower control arms, included in any quality lift, allow you to correct the steering geometry.

Interesting to hear that a lower lift (4.5”) would be better. S’pose you can’t explain further on that?

The best trail rigs have the least amount of lift required to fit the biggest tire they can while maintaining enough uptravel to handle the fastest conditions expected. It's a compromise that depends on the type of wheeling you do. A mud bog truck might fit 54" tires on 12" of lift. A rock crawler might have 39" bald Red label stickies with 2.5" of lift. Neither one will be worth a damn climbing the muddy off camber trails lined by trees we have here in the Midwest.

When you lift a rig two bad things happen. First, you raise the center of gravity making it more likely to tip over going up, down, or most likely, across a slope. Second, the control arms are angled down. When you apply power this causes the vehicle to raise up (anti-squat). When you lose traction the vehicle settles back down. These two things work together to hurt off road performance.

Now. You said that you were certain about your tire decision and but everything else was on the table. I respect that. But here in the Midwest the Interco Super Swampers are King. Lots of other tires do well, but tires like the Nitto Mud Grapplers, Baja Claws and older style Mickey Thompson MTZ's do not "clean out." The grooves are too close to straight across the tread. Unless you have seen them in action I'd get 40x13.5-17 Swamper SX2 or give Mickey Thomson's Baja Pro in a 38x13.5-17 a try (haven't seen them in action yet, but looks like a winner).

 

[JasonInDLH]

jason,

There is so much you can do with a JLU.

I Run a MC 3.5 game changer lift. Stock D44 with 40’s. I have upgraded the gears and axle shafts. 5.38 to give it more get up and go as I do drive on the freeway. I did need to trim the rear wheel area but just a little. Also separated the fenders for more room for the tires. I only wheel in Moab and sand hollow so only rock crawling no mud.

I too had a93 YJ before my JL and have no regrets, good luck with your build.

So all you did was replace the axle shafts to something stronger then? Or is there more to it than that? I’d certainly be willing to upgrade the D44’s! The Jeep is looking awesome!

 

[JasonInDLH]

The cheapest thing is to find a used Jeep built like you want. It is crazy expensive to build a trail rig; bumpers, winch, cb/gmrs radio, skid plates, it all adds up. Normally I would suggest looking for an older vehicle, but the JL has a full rollcage unlike previous models so it makes a better start for a family trail rig. That said, you will be amazed at where an Unlimited Rubicon on 35" mud tires will go. I based my response on your statement that 38" tires were non-negotiable. Keep in mind that the most expensive path is to build up a Rubicon and then find you need to swap to Dana 60's. I've seen this happen many times.

Let's compare prices:
$31,900 - 2019 Sport Unlimited with 3.6 and auto
$17,325 - Northridge Dana 60 package, 5.38, eLockers, driveshafts, steering, everything you need
$ 2,500 - Clayton premium 3.5" lift (not saying it's best, just to estimate price)
$ 2,857 - NWT tire package, 38" Mud Grapplers on Moto wheels
-------
$54, 582

$48,992 at Lenz Trucks in Minocqua
2019 Rubicon Unlimited with 3.6, auto, Mopar beadlocks with 35" Grabbers and some type of lift

You can absolutely do the lift and axle install with the help of a friend or two. The difference in capability is absolutely worth the six grand difference in price. Especially if you consider that 1) the difference in price is due to a quality lift and wheel/tires which you are probably going to replace anyway and 2) the Sport option leaves you room to grow.


No. Dana 60's are so much stronger in every respect.


Cheap lifts keep the lower factory control arms. This reduces caster and causes steering issues just like that wheel on the shopping cart that goes crazy. Adjustable lower control arms, included in any quality lift, allow you to correct the steering geometry.


The best trail rigs have the least amount of lift required to fit the biggest tire they can while maintaining enough uptravel to handle the fastest conditions expected. It's a compromise that depends on the type of wheeling you do. A mud bog truck might fit 54" tires on 12" of lift. A rock crawler might have 39" bald Red label stickies with 2.5" of lift. Neither one will be worth a damn climbing the muddy off camber trails lined by trees we have here in the Midwest.

When you lift a rig two bad things happen. First, you raise the center of gravity making it more likely to tip over going up, down, or most likely, across a slope. Second, the control arms are angled down. When you apply power this causes the vehicle to raise up (anti-squat). When you lose traction the vehicle settles back down. These two things work together to hurt off road performance.

Now. You said that you were certain about your tire decision and but everything else was on the table. I respect that. But here in the Midwest the Interco Super Swampers are King. Lots of other tires do well, but tires like the Nitto Mud Grapplers, Baja Claws and older style Mickey Thompson MTZ's do not "clean out." The grooves are too close to straight across the tread. Unless you have seen them in action I'd get 40x13.5-17 Swamper SX2 or give Mickey Thomson's Baja Pro in a 38x13.5-17 a try (haven't seen them in action yet, but looks like a winner).

I’ve wanted those Super Swamper Boggers since the 90’s and actually am considering it. Glad you mentioned this fact as I’m in MN with more mud than anything it seems.

And thanks for clearing up the “death wobble” for me. I’ve seen this on rides around here and had no idea why it happened until now, and definitely wanted to avoid that situation.

 

[Huehue80]

So all you did was replace the axle shafts to something stronger then? Or is there more to it than that? I’d certainly be willing to upgrade the D44’s! The Jeep is looking awesome!

I upgraded the axle shafts front and rear with the Dana chromoly’s and 1350 front ujoints. Also Dana hd ball joints. I have yet to truss the front axle. The front steering is all upgraded Steer Smart.

I’m not crazy with it, so far so good.

 

[hoag4147]

Okay...thanks for everyone’s input here! I’ve decided to go with a quality smaller lift like you all suggested:

Will be looking for a 2018 Unlimited Rubicon.

3.5” Rock Krawler No Limits Kit (to take advantage of the Rubicon electric sway bar disconnect).

And going with 37” tires as opposed to the 38’s. Will stick with the stock Rubicon axles and 4.10 gears until they break. Then I’ll swap em for Dana 60’s.

I believe that concludes this thread. Thanks again for all the help!

Also check out @Roky build and @Headbarcode rig. You will see the amount of flex these guys are getting out of these lifts.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/crystal-rubi-build.61821/

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/the-road-so-far.56591/page-2

 

[Roky]

Okay...thanks for everyone’s input here! I’ve decided to go with a quality smaller lift like you all suggested:

Will be looking for a 2018 Unlimited Rubicon.

3.5” Rock Krawler No Limits Kit (to take advantage of the Rubicon electric sway bar disconnect).

And going with 37” tires as opposed to the 38’s. Will stick with the stock Rubicon axles and 4.10 gears until they break. Then I’ll swap em for Dana 60’s.

I believe that concludes this thread. Thanks again for all the help!

You just described my rig, lol check here to see.......

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/crystal-rubi-build.61821/

 

[JasonInDLH]

The cheapest thing is to find a used Jeep built like you want. It is crazy expensive to build a trail rig; bumpers, winch, cb/gmrs radio, skid plates, it all adds up. Normally I would suggest looking for an older vehicle, but the JL has a full rollcage unlike previous models so it makes a better start for a family trail rig. That said, you will be amazed at where an Unlimited Rubicon on 35" mud tires will go. I based my response on your statement that 38" tires were non-negotiable. Keep in mind that the most expensive path is to build up a Rubicon and then find you need to swap to Dana 60's. I've seen this happen many times.

Let's compare prices:
$31,900 - 2019 Sport Unlimited with 3.6 and auto
$17,325 - Northridge Dana 60 package, 5.38, eLockers, driveshafts, steering, everything you need
$ 2,500 - Clayton premium 3.5" lift (not saying it's best, just to estimate price)
$ 2,857 - NWT tire package, 38" Mud Grapplers on Moto wheels
-------
$54, 582

$48,992 at Lenz Trucks in Minocqua
2019 Rubicon Unlimited with 3.6, auto, Mopar beadlocks with 35" Grabbers and some type of lift

You can absolutely do the lift and axle install with the help of a friend or two. The difference in capability is absolutely worth the six grand difference in price. Especially if you consider that 1) the difference in price is due to a quality lift and wheel/tires which you are probably going to replace anyway and 2) the Sport option leaves you room to grow.


No. Dana 60's are so much stronger in every respect.


Cheap lifts keep the lower factory control arms. This reduces caster and causes steering issues just like that wheel on the shopping cart that goes crazy. Adjustable lower control arms, included in any quality lift, allow you to correct the steering geometry.


The best trail rigs have the least amount of lift required to fit the biggest tire they can while maintaining enough uptravel to handle the fastest conditions expected. It's a compromise that depends on the type of wheeling you do. A mud bog truck might fit 54" tires on 12" of lift. A rock crawler might have 39" bald Red label stickies with 2.5" of lift. Neither one will be worth a damn climbing the muddy off camber trails lined by trees we have here in the Midwest.


But here in the Midwest the Interco Super Swampers are King. Lots of other tires do well, but tires like the Nitto Mud Grapplers, Baja Claws and older style Mickey Thompson MTZ's do not "clean out." The grooves are too close to straight across the tread. Unless you have seen them in action I'd get 40x13.5-17 Swamper SX2 or give Mickey Thomson's Baja Pro in a 38x13.5-17 a try (haven't seen them in action yet, but looks like a winner).

I was just in the garage and realized I can only get by with 37’s and a 3.5” lift (otherwise I would need to air down the tires to get in). Works out perfectly!

In regards to the Boggers I’ve always wanted I realized that they only come in 15” and 16.5” wheel size and that’s why I decided not to go with those for this build (was excited to get some good looking 20” or 22” (at least 18”) wheels for when I hit the grocery store up. Haha!

 

[Huehue80]

I was just in the garage and realized I can only get by with 37’s and a 3.5” lift (otherwise I would need to air down the tires to get in). Works out perfectly!

In regards to the Boggers I’ve always wanted I realized that they only come in 15” and 16.5” wheel size and that’s why I decided not to go with those for this build (was excited to get some good looking 20” or 22” (at least 18”) wheels for when I hit the grocery store up. Haha!

37’s are awesome had those for the first 30k. You are going to love your new jeep. Here’s mine with 37’s

 

[JasonInDLH]

37’s are awesome has those for the first 30k. You are going to love your be jeep. Here’s mine with 37’s

Awesome! That’s insane these Jeep’s can do this! Really looking forward to this!

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