Looking For Input on Modifications (Concluded)

[JasonInDLH]

I’ll start by saying I own a Renegade (sister passed away couple years ago so I inherited it). Been a great Jeep with fond memories, but ready to part with it to make new memories with the family in a Wrangler JL.

With that said, I’ve been out of the Wrangler modifications loop since 2000 and it appears lots have changed since the ‘93 YJ I owned.

With THAT said...I’m looking for as much input as possible with basically zero experience with suspension lifts and big tires (I will be doing all the modifications myself as I’m a wrencher at heart).

I know what I want to do, but don’t know what I need exactly to accomplish it properly. So with that said, I’ll begin by what I want to do in terms of tires, brakes, and suspension and continue when all that is figured out. I’ll start with the tires as I’m certain what I want there(all else can be changed per your input)(I should say I’ll be seeing lots of mud and muddy trails with random logs, stumps, rocks, zero highway, quite a bit of city driving to get to trails and to pick up the groceries ). Considering a ‘19 Unlimited Rubicon Automatic Transmission (Need space for the family).

1. 38”x15.5”x18” Nitto Mud Grapplers

The following can be changed...
2. 18”x12” Fuel Maverick wheels(I’ll figure out the offset when I actually own a Wrangler, but I’m guessing it’ll be -44mm perhaps with a spacer)
3. 5.13 Gearing (I found front and rear, what about the transaxle?)
4. Wilwood Big Brake Kit (14” Drilled and Slotted Rotors)
5. 6” Rough Country Long Arm Suspension Lift w/shocks

Now...what things am I missing to have a solid build regarding the steering, suspension, transmission, engine, axles, ball joints, etc to not have it break down on the trail (or even worse...in the grocery parking lot )? I’m not talking about skid plates, winches, etc...just mechanical stuff here.

Sorry for long post and thanks in advance!

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[Kreepin1]

No need to apologize for the long post. It contains just the sort of info you need to get good responses! I also applaud the way you are starting with the tires, as this will determine lots of other things.

You are building right at the ragged edge of what Dana 44 axles can handle. This leaves you no room to upgrade if you decide to move up. This matters because when (not if) you start breaking the 44's you will have wasted thousands on wheels, upgraded shafts, and trusses/brackets. My suggestion is to look for a Sport rather than a Rubicon and swap the axles to Dana 60's something like this guy did:
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...o-mudzilla-transformation.58849/#post-1267457
https://spicerparts.com/parts/axle/automotive-performance/ultimate-dana-60-axle-for-jeep-wrangler-jl

Trust me, this is cheaper in the long run. The larger brakes that come with these axles are more than enough. You don't need drilled and slotted rotors for low speed wheeling. You aren't even getting out on the hiway! About the 4:1 transfer case that come with the Rubicon - you can add it later but probably don't need it. It is for rock crawling and limits wheel speed you need to clean out the mud. The standard 2.72:1 is a better choice for the Midwest. What you do want are lower gears in the axles.

Look for an Unlimited in the color you want without eTorque, so a '18 or '19 with the 3.6 or a '20 with the 2.0. Personally, I prefer the 3.6. The Aux switches that come with the tow package would be nice to have to control the locking differentials. Then add these:
Dana 60 front with 5.38 gears and Eaton eLocker
Dana 60 rear with 5.38 gears and Eaton eLocker
Larger master cylinder to match the larger brakes on these axles.
4.5" long arm lift (less lift is better, long arms are better)

There are cheaper options, like used Super Duty axles (Artec makes brackets for the swap). You do want locking differentials front and rear. I strongly suggest that at least the rear be selectable. When you are on a side slope, a locked rear tends to slide downhill and you end up crabbing across the trail. If you turn off the rear locker the rear end does a much better job following the front. I like ARB, but there are other options. Talk to your axle supplier

 

[JasonInDLH]

Great! Thanks for such a great response! Glad you mentioned about the Sport and going with Dana 60’s as I thought about it, but
assumed it would be cheaper to do the Rubicon. Would you truss the Dana 60?

What about all this talk about new control arms?

Interesting to hear that a lower lift (4.5”) would be better. S’pose you can’t explain further on that?

Thanks!

 

[beast40]

On my TJ I went through 8 different axles and learned a lot of lessons.

Front: D30/D30HP/D44/ProRock1550 Rear: D35,D33,HP9",ProRock

60s are pretty fool proof up to a 40" tire, especially built ones. You chose a tweener tire size. The Rubi44s should hold up to 37s just fine with moderate wheeling. 38s and you start to lean on 60s.

How you wheel will determine your best build line. Its hard to tell what kind of wheeling you are doing. If its mainly looks and some occasional off-roading just go Rubicon. If you plan to really use or abuse the Jeep then go right to 60s.

Since no highway the 5.13s will be good, I always prefer a lower gear.

3.5" of lift with Rubi fenders is plenty for 38s, just be aware you will need a new front driveshaft. (Front and Rear if you swap to 60s)

 

[JasonInDLH]

Thanks for the great input! I’ve been going back and forth on tire size, axles, and either a Sport and upgrading to D60’s or stick with Rubicon and D44’s.

Think I’ll do the 37” and go with a Rubicon as I don’t believe I’ll beat it like some of you guys! Wasn’t really looking forward to axle swapping as I’ll be doing all the work myself.

 

[ExpeditionBuilds]

Jason, welcome to the madness! You've got some sound advice already. I'll be brief, hoping to provide a build outline and philosophy.

- Don't go cheap on your lift...it's your suspension after all. Try and select a quality lift that is in the 2-4" range, considered a low center of gravity lift. They work perfectly on/off-road. Your goal should be to try and meet or exceed what the Jeep engineers spent countless hours engineering, testing and dialing in.

- Start on 37's. They look great on the JL, especially the Rubicons with the higher front fenders and they work very well off-road. As stated, you can run them on the stock D44's.

- The new 8-speed on the JL is amazing at covering the larger 37's. I run 37's and I'm still on the stock 4:10 gears. This is my daily driver and I wheel some good trails. I feel like 37's are the sweet spot...performance, looks for the JL. Going bigger as stated and you're stepping into axles, brakes gears, etc..

Good luck with your build, research is your friend!


-Steven

 

[JasonInDLH]

Thanks for the advice, Steven! You’ve really locked my decision to go with a Rubicon and 37” tires. I’m still curious as to why not go with a bigger lift such as a 6” lift (you’re the 3rd person now suggestion a smaller lift) Is it do to rollover concerns? I’ve always thought you get more articulation from higher lift, thereby allowing you to climb over things better?

 

[ExpeditionBuilds]

Thanks for the advice, Steven! You’ve really locked my decision to go with a Rubicon and 37” tires. I’m still curious as to why not go with a bigger lift such as a 6” lift (you’re the 3rd person now suggestion a smaller lift) Is it do to rollover concerns? I’ve always thought you get more articulation from higher lift, thereby allowing you to climb over things better?

My pleasure! From your original post, you said more room for the family, so I'm assuming this will be your daily driver?

With regards to JL lift size, there's several things at play that define why most work with LCG lifts.

- Lower center of gravity is safer on the trail as well as on the street
- Most lift kits are 'short arm', meaning they are using the stock mounting points for control arms. This type of kit keeps the price relatively affordable vs a long arm kit. Keep in mind that control arms need to be more parallel to the ground for the Jeep to ride correctly.
- There are trade offs where what is gained in ground clearance/lift height is given up by the instability(rollover) of a too high lift.
- Day to day convenience of climbing in and out of 6" lifted JL on 40's.

I'm sure others will add to this. I hope it helps.


-Steven

 

[Catiajockey]

The other main reason for the shorter lift on a JL is that you simply do not need it to accomplish what you are trying to do. Throwing out ascetics the main purpose of a lift is to fit bigger tires and improve off road handling (articulation and such). On the JL platform you just don't need as big a lift to run massive tires. This is especially true if you start with a Rubicon. Again way different from your previous YJ. Think about what it would have taken to just run 35s on YJ or a TJ.

 

[JasonInDLH]

No, this is not planned as a daily driver and I’m going to try to stick to trails so I want space for the family to enjoy trail riding together in a comfortable setting (no one crammed in the back of a two door). I’m certain I’ll fall in love with it though and want to drive it everywhere. Definitely no highways though.

You guys have almost got me sold on the 4-4.5” lift as opposed to a 6”. I don’t mind paying extra for a Long Arm lift if it’s superior to handling off road. Is this where new control arms come into play? To regain the geometry? I thought maybe it was for strength. So if I go with a short arm lift I won’t need new control arms, correct?

 

[JasonInDLH]

The other main reason for the shorter lift on a JL is that you simply do not need it to accomplish what you are trying to do. Throwing out ascetics the main purpose of a lift is to fit bigger tires and improve off road handling (articulation and such). On the JL platform you just don't need as big a lift to run massive tires. This is especially true if you start with a Rubicon. Again way different from your previous YJ. Think about what it would have taken to just run 35s on YJ or a TJ.

I think this is where I’m getting boggled up! My YJ had a 4” lift and could barely fit 33’s on it. So to hear people fitting 37’s on a 2” lift sounds crazy to me! I’m still having a hard time grasping this.

 

[Catiajockey]

short arm and long arm lifts refer to the length of the new control arms you get with the lift. Some short arm kits only replace the lower control arms, some replace them all. Long arm vs short arm lifts have many pros and cons, too many to list here. Long arms are generally considered better but are more expensive due to installation (cutting and welding generally required).

I thought you were thinking in terms of older wranglers. Remember 33s are the stock size on JL Rubicons. I, and many people, just throw on 35s with no lift (Rubicons) and it works great.

 

[ExpeditionBuilds]

No, this is not planned as a daily driver and I’m going to try to stick to trails so I want space for the family to enjoy trail riding together in a comfortable setting (no one crammed in the back of a two door). I’m certain I’ll fall in love with it though and want to drive it everywhere. Definitely no highways though.

You guys have almost got me sold on the 4-4.5” lift as opposed to a 6”. I don’t mind paying extra for a Long Arm lift if it’s superior to handling off road. Is this where new control arms come into play? To regain the geometry? I thought maybe it was for strength. So if I go with a short arm lift I won’t need new control arms, correct?

You will need new adj. control arms to get the geometry correct. Things like pinion angle, centering axles, etc..

Long arm kits will flex and ride better than a short arm. You could for example do 4.5" long that would be superb on the trail and ride well on the pavement.


-Steven

 

[ExpeditionBuilds]

For reference, here's my JL on 3.5" Metal Cloak lift/37's. The JL is a whole different animal than your previous YJ.

-Steven

 

[JasonInDLH]

For reference, here's my JL on 3.5" Metal Cloak lift/37's. The JL is a whole different animal than your previous YJ.

-Steven

Holy smokes! That’s amazing! Looking really good! And all from a 3.5” lift! Getting really excited now!

Modifying the Jeep will be easy. Few bloody knuckles here and there. Getting my wife on board with all this...

If there’s welding involved with the long arm kits sounds like I’ll be going with short arm as I don’t weld sadly.

All you guys rock! Have learned a ton already!

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