Looking at JLU considering 4runner

[Jcsieman]

I would expect the TRD to be very good. It's competing with the Bronco also, which will be topless IIRC. Maybe not the first year but the second and third for each vehicle would add some competition to Jeep.

Good point! Love seeing this segment get so much focus.

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[Grayce's mom]

My JL had intermittent loss of power steering and electrical issues that they seem to have fixed. It took a LONG time for them to fix it and while I was waiting I looked at 4Runners. Here was my assessment: Toyota beats Jeep in reliability hands down. The 4Runner is behind on technology and horsepower.

It sounds like from your post, a 4Runner might be a better option for your needs. It is more reliable. Your kids will be able to climb in on their own sooner than they will be able to in a Jeep. On the other hand, my kids didn’t see the big deal about the Jeep. It was just an SUV, like mom had, until I took the top and doors off and we drove through the country and down some trails. Now, they look forward to rides, and two of my three are teens. If you plan on taking the family on rides with the top and doors off, then there can be only one.

Our 6 1/2 month old JL just got out of the shop after 52 days. New steering gear box and damper replaced. Still not 100%. It needs to go back. If anyone is deciding between the JL and the 4 Runner, they should run and not walk to the nearest Toyota dealership and avoid potential problems with the Jeep. At least until Chrysler does something to fix these issues before they manufacture any more faulty Jeeps. If anyone thinks that people, including me, are making up these issues to disparage the Jeep they are misinformed. I have no doubt those same people would be the first to complain if they nearly drove off the highway because their steering failed. Will it take someone dying before Chrysler comes to their senses? Let’s hope not.

 

[photowiz]

take your car seats with you to dealer. Install them in both. bring all the baby stuff with you too. Pack in it the both. This will be your life for next 4+ years. Then it will change. I had 3 boys all close in age. Also see if you can get the one of these vehicles for the day. So when you go look at the other vehicle with all the stuff, you can tell the dealer - its between your vehicle and this one. Might give you some leverage to get a better deal. I did that and they really wanted me to not buy the one I brought to compare side by side.

Great advice

 

[RubenZ]

I’m lucky. My wife and our family car is a 4Runner and my daily driver is our JL. We love both! 4Runner has more space no doubt about it. It drives softer but honestly it goes all over the road just as much as my JL. Steering is too responsive imo.

 

[Chomper]

Oh goodie....another vehicle sending out radar waves constantly to assess whether or not someone is in your "blind spot"; something a mirror does quite well if one were actually trained in how to adjust and use them. God, Amerikans are stupid/lazy lot.

If a Bird Box type situation ever happened, you might wish you had it.

But seriously, I don't want that option. I want all the distracted drivers on the road to have it though.

 

[Chomper]

Our 6 1/2 month old JL just got out of the shop after 52 days. New steering gear box and damper replaced. Still not 100%. It needs to go back. If anyone is deciding between the JL and the 4 Runner, they should run and not walk to the nearest Toyota dealership and avoid potential problems with the Jeep. At least until Chrysler does something to fix these issues before they manufacture any more faulty Jeeps. If anyone thinks that people, including me, are making up these issues to disparage the Jeep they are misinformed. I have no doubt those same people would be the first to complain if they nearly drove off the highway because their steering failed. Will it take someone dying before Chrysler comes to their senses? Let’s hope not.

Just picked up a 2018 JLU Sahara about a month ago after driving a 2008 Xterra OR for nearly 11 years. The steering is much better than the Xterra OR. I like how it drives better than the 2018 JKU Sahara I rented for two weeks over the summer and put 2500 miles on.

 

[Sean K.]

I can tell several tragic stories about people who would have been saved by this kind of tech. Remember the stupid/lazy drivers usually are not the victims. I can tell you for a fact you’re indignation does nothing to console the victims’ loved ones.

Might wanna roll back your own indignation considering the same technology used for lane departure systems is used in radar guns that police claimed in the 90's may have been causing testicular cancer, so much so, that while the "research" (put in quotes as it was conducted by the industry making the guns) said the link was "inconclusive" (quoting their own research).....the mfgs recommended the officers not rest the guns in their laps from then on as well as mitigate exposure in other ways. Not real comforting.

Once every car is mandated to have this alleged safety feature (and it will eventually be a standard requirement IMO), what will be the impact to irradiating EVERYTHING around every vehicle constantly as we all drive? We simply don't know with any certainty.

Yes, I understand that we get constant bombardment from Wifi, solar radiation, etc.....but do we really need more? Having a wife with cancer will likely change your outlook as it has mine about just what things in our environment can be causing all the cancers we are seeing. And...do we need more from things as basic as the concept of setting mirrors correctly?


For most of my driving life, until I bought a Lotus, I had no idea that mfgs do not make vehicles (exception: vehicles with no rear view, such as box trucks) with "blind spots"...and that proper mirror adjustment is key to fixing this non-issue. The problem is one of education. I took driver's ed. The extent of how to properly adjust mirrors came down to: "Okay, adjust your seat, put on the seat belt, put your foot on the brake, start the ignition, adjust your mirrors, put it in drive...." and that was pretty much it.....which, btw, ISN'T the correct procedure for properly adjusting them in the first place.

 

[ZEN357]

I think you would need to test drive both and look at how much room you will have and how easily you can get your children in and out of the vehicle.

 

[ormandj]

Might wanna roll back your own indignation considering the same technology used for lane departure systems is used in radar guns that police claimed in the 90's may have been causing testicular cancer, so much so, that while the "research" (put in quotes as it was conducted by the industry making the guns) said the link was "inconclusive" (quoting their own research).....the mfgs recommended the officers not rest the guns in their laps from then on as well as mitigate exposure in other ways. Not real comforting.

Once every car is mandated to have this alleged safety feature (and it will eventually be a standard requirement IMO), what will be the impact to irradiating EVERYTHING around every vehicle constantly as we all drive? We simply don't know with any certainty.

Yes, I understand that we get constant bombardment from Wifi, solar radiation, etc.....but do we really need more? Having a wife with cancer will likely change your outlook as it has mine about just what things in our environment can be causing all the cancers we are seeing. And...do we need more from things as basic as the concept of setting mirrors correctly?


For most of my driving life, until I bought a Lotus, I had no idea that mfgs do not make vehicles (exception: vehicles with no rear view, such as box trucks) with "blind spots"...and that proper mirror adjustment is key to fixing this non-issue. The problem is one of education. I took driver's ed. The extent of how to properly adjust mirrors came down to: "Okay, adjust your seat, put on the seat belt, put your foot on the brake, start the ignition, adjust your mirrors, put it in drive...." and that was pretty much it.

First, I am sorry to hear about your wife. My step mother passed due to cancer, and many others in my family have or have had it and won or lost. Terrible affliction and I hope we find a way to finally defeat it.

That said, while you indicate you understand environmental radiation, I think we need to clear up something. Specifically, there is a large difference between a cell phone in your pocket/against your head or a radar gun emitting in your lap and radar safety systems.

18-27GHz is generally used in these systems with outputs in the milliwatt range. Above 10GHz doesn't penetrate the skin, so even at high power (1000W/m^2) you're just talking skin burns. At a milliwatt emitted let alone near or far field, nothing. I haven't looked at the study you are referencing, but I would imagine it's inconclusive because either testing methodology is faulty or they haven't performed a 20+ year follow-up. Skin in that area is the thinnest, so perhaps there's something more going on, but at the distances used in blind spot monitoring and adaptive cruise control, it isn't a risk. If it we're lower frequency it would be a completely different story, if high powered. It is neither.

Cellular phones are a different story. They operate at much lower frequencies, some below 1GHz, and many in the lower GHz range. This does penetrate skin, and the radios are outputting watts of power. I don't have any completed study info with long-term follow-up, but there may be something more to this one. 4W/kg is considered the safe exposure limit currently, but with the penetrating effects, and the proximity, we should be a bit more cautious.

Derailment over, I'm out. Again, sorry about your wife and all my best to her as well as you and your family!

 

[ThirtyOne]

Might wanna roll back your own indignation considering the same technology used for lane departure systems is used in radar guns that police claimed in the 90's may have been causing testicular cancer, so much so, that while the "research" (put in quotes as it was conducted by the industry making the guns) said the link was "inconclusive" (quoting their own research).....the mfgs recommended the officers not rest the guns in their laps from then on as well as mitigate exposure in other ways. Not real comforting.

Once every car is mandated to have this alleged safety feature (and it will eventually be a standard requirement IMO), what will be the impact to irradiating EVERYTHING around every vehicle constantly as we all drive? We simply don't know with any certainty.

Yes, I understand that we get constant bombardment from Wifi, solar radiation, etc.....but do we really need more? Having a wife with cancer will likely change your outlook as it has mine about just what things in our environment can be causing all the cancers we are seeing. And...do we need more from things as basic as the concept of setting mirrors correctly?


For most of my driving life, until I bought a Lotus, I had no idea that mfgs do not make vehicles (exception: vehicles with no rear view, such as box trucks) with "blind spots"...and that proper mirror adjustment is key to fixing this non-issue. The problem is one of education. I took driver's ed. The extent of how to properly adjust mirrors came down to: "Okay, adjust your seat, put on the seat belt, put your foot on the brake, start the ignition, adjust your mirrors, put it in drive...." and that was pretty much it.

First of all my comments weren't personal. You are opinionated and I like that and that's why I respond to your posts. I've posted the same sentiment before on other threads. Yes people should be more attentive and competent as drivers. My only point is that the victims are usually not the drivers. These features aren't just like a seatbelt or a helmet that saves people from themselves.

I am very sorry for your wife. My wife is also a cancer survivor as are many people I care about in my life (and some who have passed). It does seem to be more common than ever and I can't help but wonder if it is the technology we have surrounded ourselves with. But maybe I am just getting older.

 

[NCSUSTATS]

I still have a 2003 4Runner limited, V8, AWD, which I bought/ordered brand new.
- never left me stranded,
- 1 mechanical recall (throttlebody),
- most capable snow/ice/rain capability of any vehicle I’ve driven,
- comfortable, quiet, good driver, tows well (w V8),
- not set up well for passenger getting access to 2 kids (in car seats), we ended up buying a minivan to travel with kids.

I just gave the minivan to my mother in law and bought a JLUR.

JLUR:
- stranded once (already), manual transmission failed,
- no recalls (on my build date) that I’m aware,
- untested adverse weather, but wager 4WD system not as fluid as AWD,
- same comfort level, not as quiet, good driver, less towing
- my kids, now 12/13, LOVE it.

Toyota has not moved the ball fwd from my 4Runner’s year, the first year of the current generation. FCA has made significant improvements for this new generation of Wrangler. Toyota is definitely a better car company, builds a more reliable vehicle. The JLUR is definitely more fun, more engaging and better looking.

4Runner is a better choice if you are a single car family living in an adverse weather region who also needs to tow.

 

[Sean K.]

First of all my comments weren't personal. You are opinionated and I like that and that's why I respond to your posts. I've posted the same sentiment before on other threads. Yes people should be more attentive and competent as drivers. My only point is that the victims are usually not the drivers. These features aren't just like a seatbelt or a helmet that saves people from themselves.

I am very sorry for your wife. My wife is also a cancer survivor as are many people I care about in my life (and some who have passed). It does seem to be more common than ever and I can't help but wonder if it is the technology we have surrounded ourselves with. But maybe I am just getting older.

Didn't take them that way. I didn't explain my reasoning for my comment. I just haven't seen evidence that says the technology is safe, nor do I believe most people know how to adjust their mirrors properly to avoid the issue altogether (I know I didn't)...and once you do, it's actually stupid simple.

Agree that the victims are not always the drivers.....but I think we differ in how one goes about solving the problem of inattentiveness. Amerikans are quick to shout, "Well, there oughta be a law!", not realizing that at the federal level (not including state or local laws), on average every Jan 1, we add 40K new laws to the books. I'm one of those weirdos that actually believes in personal accountability as well as the adage of "no victim, no crime", that we have too many laws as is and that violating the natural, negative rights of anyone is always wrong. But I digress.......the topic is a lot more complicated than a forum post can really convey without so much detail as to become TLDR. And...I realize this part of my commentary doesn't claim you were advocating a legal curtailment....just an aside on my part.

Sorry to hear about your wife as well....hopefully she is in full remission and never has to deal with it again.

 

[Trauma PA]

Hi all,

I'm coming from years of about 6 jeeps. My last one was a 2008 Unlimited which I sold around 2012 due to having company trucks. In 2017 we ended our company program and I went to an BMW X3M40i, big mistake nothing but issues. I just got out of the car and looking for a very capable do anything family SUV for my wife and 2 kids.

Both kids in car seats 3 year old and new born.

I've read up on the steering wheel / steering feel issues and it has definitely deterred me. I need a reliable daily driver that has the ability to go anywhere. I can't afford to have the car in the shop as much as my bmw looking for endless fixes.

How wide spread is the JL's steering issues an other issues? How does the reliability look for the 2019?

Its come down to a 19 JLU Rubicon/sahara or a 19 4runner LTD.


Thanks for the input.

Have you made a decision yet?

 

[Yellow_Rubi-can]

I am wondering if you made your decision yet, and what your thoughts are??

4Runners cant be had with a manual gear box...

Mine is lifted, spent $7K to make it what it is, and now, i want more!

It doesn't rock crawl like i imagined it would! and now i don't know what to do..

I keep telling myself that if i had a rubicon and had spent the same $7K on it.. It would be able to crawl the back of the moon if i decided!

And here i am.. Looking to sell my 4Runner to buy a Rubicon

 

[TXJeepScientist]

The 4runner is being re-introduced in the 2021 model year. Just a heads up http://suvsandtrucks.com/2021-toyota-4runner/

Toyota is coming out with a Limited 60 Year Everything Land Cruiser for 2020. This edtion WILL NOT HAVE THIRD ROW SEATING which I think is great thing. Only 1,200 will be made and Toyota will start taking orders in the summer.

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