Latest TSB on the Pentastar engine

[Jay Gatsby]

It says the issues can occur between 10-60k miles , if you are over 60k, are you in the clear?

I think Stellantis is only covering warranty miles. There have been documented cases over 60k miles, but since Stellantis is not responsible for out-of-warranty miles, they discount it.

Sponsored

 

[flyer92]

Like many of us, I religiously get my oil analyzed every time I change it. Not only is it a good indicator of engine health, but it also provides proof and history of oil changes.

Foe those who do this and have experienced the engine problems described in this TSB, can you please advise if you had any early indications on your oil analyses and explain what they were? Thanks in advance and best of luck to all 3.6L owners out there!

 

[Ron Texas]

Like many of us, I religiously get my oil analyzed every time I change it. Not only is it a good indicator of engine health, but it also provides proof and history of oil changes.

Foe those who do this and have experienced the engine problems described in this TSB, can you please advise if you had any early indications on your oil analyses and explain what they were? Thanks in advance and best of luck to all 3.6L owners out there!

Not that many people have their oil analyzed. Considering the defect rate is around 1%, there will not be a lot of data points.

 

[Odyssey USA]

Not that many people have their oil analyzed. Considering the defect rate is around 1%, there will not be a lot of data points.

I’m assuming this 1%, or the like, number being floated out there must be addressing 60k mile and under cases. Stellantis isn’t likely going to document anything past that. There’s no reason for them to. People need to keep that in mind about the prevalence of the issue.

 

[Ron Texas]

I’m assuming this 1%, or the like, number being floated out there must be addressing 60k mile and under cases. Stellantis isn’t likely going to document anything past that. There’s no reason for them to. People need to keep that in mind about the prevalence of the issue.

I've come to the conclusion that discussion of the issue around here is far more prevalent than the issue itself. I can't find this intensity of discussion elsewhere. There are a couple of members who keep bringing it up. Stellantis knows exactly how many failures have happened because they sell the parts. The 60k mile thing is a bit vague. A reasonable interpretation is if an engine makes it past 60k miles failure due to the manufacturing defect in the TSB is rare. I have also heard unofficial reports of replacement out of warranty. Unfortunately, pessimism runs rampant around here. The situation is nothing like the widespread engine failures experienced at Ford, Toyota and GM.

 

[Odyssey USA]

I've come to the conclusion that discussion of the issue around here is far more prevalent than the issue itself. I can't find this intensity of discussion elsewhere. There are a couple of members who keep bringing it up. Stellantis knows exactly how many failures have happened because they sell the parts. The 60k mile thing is a bit vague. A reasonable interpretation is if an engine makes it past 60k miles failure due to the manufacturing defect in the TSB is rare. I have also heard unofficial reports of replacement out of warranty. Unfortunately, pessimism runs rampant around here. The situation is nothing like the widespread engine failures experienced at Ford, Toyota and GM.

The goodwill stops at 100k miles and can carry from partial to full reimbursement.

The definition of rare is subjective. For them to issue a TSB, like when they switched my aluminum steering gearbox to a cast iron, it’s seemingly worth addressing at their own cost when they don’t have to.

There’s multiple forums and social media sites with daily diagnosis of camshaft failure regardless of miles. Is it common? Again, subjective. Is it rare…not rare enough for them to ignore it apparently.

As to members bringing it up, from my observation it to try to mitigate it prevent the Russian Roulette nature of it because the collective experience and first hand knowledge of the valvetrain issue seems to have no recognizable pattern. There’s so much reference on many platforms yet there’s still no “this is exactly why”. Also, they’ve been having this nagging issue for well over a decade. Personally, I see that there is a difference between Bank 1 (most common) and Bank 2. That’s a fact. My former automotive machinist/engine builder/cylinder head porter and builder self thinks there’s an oiling difference if all the parts designs are equal left to right.

How would Stellantis know if they are out of warranty, are sitting, and owners can’t afford to fix it or they are buying off brand products to save money…or the same vehicle has needed the work done more than once? And they’ve collated every prior repair that they mistakenly only replaced lifters, rockers, or cam? IOW, they didn’t do it right and now it doesn’t count for their data criteria? And they’re completely trustworthy? There’s not that much sharing going on by Stellantis with their customers to completely trust their perception of the issue.

I’ve owned dozens and dozens of vehicles and been on forums since the late 90’s. I’ve never seen a catastrophic failure like this be as prevalent as it is with excellent maintenance records with any vehicle I’ve owned. I would agree it seems GM has bigger issues at the moment though.

So I fall somewhere between rare & ignorable and occasionally as to frequency from my perception.

 

[beachbumm78]

Yeah, Stellantis isn’t ever going to give the failure rate freely. Without that info, I’m going to take the tech’s word how bad it is with 1-2 in the shop every day in a relatively small town. That’s before the backorder. To them, that’s not normal.

No, they’ll never give that out. I’d take that techs word also. I know when I was getting my first engine replaced the shop I was at had 2 other JLs coming in also for new engines due to failures. Then when I was at the dealership a month later having engine 2 replaced they also had 2 there needing new engines. So while hard to gauge exactly how many….i just keep hearing of more and more others having issues with the ticking and cams/rockers.

 

[SadRobot]

 

[AmericanPatriot100]

I’m sure this question has been asked so many times. If folks hate this engine so much why get another Jeep with the same engine? I’ve no problems with either of my 3.6s first one went for 150k no issues got traded in because I needed a commuter. My 25 has ~4700 on it now. If you hate the 3.6 so much why not get the 392? Or something that doesn’t have this motor? Or LS swap it? Why put yourself through it again and again and again?

 

[flyer92]

Not that many people have their oil analyzed. Considering the defect rate is around 1%, there will not be a lot of data points.

Well of course, but if there was ever any place to ask this question, it's definitely on this forum!

 

[Ron Texas]

The goodwill stops at 100k miles and can carry from partial to full reimbursement.

The definition of rare is subjective. For them to issue a TSB, like when they switched my aluminum steering gearbox to a cast iron, it’s seemingly worth addressing at their own cost when they don’t have to.

There’s multiple forums and social media sites with daily diagnosis of camshaft failure regardless of miles. Is it common? Again, subjective. Is it rare…not rare enough for them to ignore it apparently.

As to members bringing it up, from my observation it to try to mitigate it prevent the Russian Roulette nature of it because the collective experience and first hand knowledge of the valvetrain issue seems to have no recognizable pattern. There’s so much reference on many platforms yet there’s still no “this is exactly why”. Also, they’ve been having this nagging issue for well over a decade. Personally, I see that there is a difference between Bank 1 (most common) and Bank 2. That’s a fact. My former automotive machinist/engine builder/cylinder head porter and builder self thinks there’s an oiling difference if all the parts designs are equal left to right.

How would Stellantis know if they are out of warranty, are sitting, and owners can’t afford to fix it or they are buying off brand products to save money…or the same vehicle has needed the work done more than once? And they’ve collated every prior repair that they mistakenly only replaced lifters, rockers, or cam? IOW, they didn’t do it right and now it doesn’t count for their data criteria? And they’re completely trustworthy? There’s not that much sharing going on by Stellantis with their customers to completely trust their perception of the issue.

I’ve owned dozens and dozens of vehicles and been on forums since the late 90’s. I’ve never seen a catastrophic failure like this be as prevalent as it is with excellent maintenance records with any vehicle I’ve owned. I would agree it seems GM has bigger issues at the moment though.

So I fall somewhere between rare & ignorable and occasionally as to frequency from my perception.

The "How would Stellantis know" paragraph is particularly speculative. Stellantis would easily know if a dealer did the job twice. My idea of a catastrophic failure is the engine suddenly stalls. In that case it's a safety defect and a recall would be necessary. Toyota had to replace many thousands of turbo V6 engines in Tundra and Sequoia models for machining debris in the engine. Ford had to replace many 2.7 V6 motors in the Bronco. A smaller recall applied to the Bronco I4.

At this point the TSB is no more than instructions as to how to fix the problem without replacing the entire engine. What one reads in any forum is a mix of self selection, well meaning unsubstantiated information, and outright trolling. There is a lot less about this issue over at Wranglerforum.com.

There was a class action regarding the pre PUG Pentastar. I have not found a class action for the PUG and certainly there isn't a recall. I will call the problem rare until either happens.

How about we all get real and stop driving anyone with this motor nuts.

 

[Odyssey USA]

The "How would Stellantis know" paragraph is particularly speculative. Stellantis would easily know if a dealer did the job twice. My idea of a catastrophic failure is the engine suddenly stalls. In that case it's a safety defect and a recall would be necessary. Toyota had to replace many thousands of turbo V6 engines in Tundra and Sequoia models for machining debris in the engine. Ford had to replace many 2.7 V6 motors in the Bronco. A smaller recall applied to the Bronco I4.

At this point the TSB is no more than instructions as to how to fix the problem without replacing the entire engine.

My opinion is this should not be happening at all before 150 or 200k miles.

All we can do is speculate.

A valvetrain failure is a catastrophic failure to me as it can take out the oil pump because the pickup screen isn’t that fine. Sure, it would take longer but there’s a lot of less mechanically inclined owners or they know it’s a huge expense, have to wait to fix to save money, and also have to get to work. It’s a quandary for sure. Then you’d be getting ring flutter with valves closed. That’ll bring oil fuel dilution. It needs to be fixed quickly.

 

[Ron Texas]

All we can do is speculate.

If you want to speculate, buy crypto. Your apocalyptic description of what happens is if the problem is ignored. It's no different than saying an engine will be ruined if you drive it without water until it stops running because a $20 hose went bad. Lots of problems are catastrophic if ignored yet have a straight forward fix at the outset. Can you let up with the FUD?

 

[beachbumm78]

I’m sure this question has been asked so many times. If folks hate this engine so much why get another Jeep with the same engine? I’ve no problems with either of my 3.6s first one went for 150k no issues got traded in because I needed a commuter. My 25 has ~4700 on it now. If you hate the 3.6 so much why not get the 392? Or something that doesn’t have this motor? Or LS swap it? Why put yourself through it again and again and again?

For myself- this engine is under warranty and I’m not about to spend another 10k for an engine. And getting another jeep is out of the question as I picked this specific one with the color and manual transmission I wanted. They don’t make this one any more.

 

[Ron Texas]

I’m sure this question has been asked so many times. If folks hate this engine so much why get another Jeep with the same engine? I’ve no problems with either of my 3.6s first one went for 150k no issues got traded in because I needed a commuter. My 25 has ~4700 on it now. If you hate the 3.6 so much why not get the 392? Or something that doesn’t have this motor? Or LS swap it? Why put yourself through it again and again and again?

The answer is a few people posting in this forum are making more noise than reality justifies. They never had a problem and don't personally know anyone who did. My '23 has 13k on it. So far so good. Forums are not reality and lots of what one reads in them is BS.

Sponsored