Jeep/Bronco Articulation Comparo

Richtor

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Not that I'd run off brand on my Jeep, but I know guys who've bought 37's for $1,100 mounted and balanced.
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I keep to name brands as I’ve had a friend almost killed when his cheap burst for no reason. The cheapest mud Terrains I found on tire rack was cooper mud terrains at $288 and change. 5 purchased mounted balance would be $1800. Again no wheels.

And to answer your question I wouldn’t do a budget lift. I like things to last and in my experience buying the quality the first time saves money headache and time.

You can do as you please as it is your money. More power to you. I do agree, that Bronco mods will be more money. I am impressed at what the broncos are already climbing oem or simple mods.

 

Zandcwhite

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I keep to name brands as I’ve had a friend almost killed when his cheap burst for no reason. The cheapest mud Terrains I found on tire rack was cooper mud terrains at $288 and change. 5 purchased mounted balance would be $1800. Again no wheels.

And to answer your question I wouldn’t do a budget lift. I like things to last and in my experience buying the quality the first time saves money headache and time.

You can do as you please as it is your money. More power to you. I do agree, that Bronco mods will be more money. I am impressed at what the broncos are already climbing oem or simple mods.
There are definitely things you shouldn’t skimp on, including tires in my opinion. The idea that a spacer lift isn’t “built to last” because you didn’t spend $3k on it is absurd though. A spacer lift will last as long and be as durable as the stock suspension, after all it’s just a spacer. No moving part, no wear components, really nothing to possibly fail. Obviously a full kit with adjustable control arms, track bars, and better shocks is far superior but you’d be surprised what a 2” spacer lift with a quality 37” tire will do off road.
 

Headbarcode

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There are definitely things you shouldn’t skimp on, including tires in my opinion. The idea that a spacer lift isn’t “built to last” because you didn’t spend $3k on it is absurd though. A spacer lift will last as long and be as durable as the stock suspension, after all it’s just a spacer. No moving part, no wear components, really nothing to possibly fail. Obviously a full kit with adjustable control arms, track bars, and better shocks is far superior but you’d be surprised what a 2” spacer lift with a quality 37” tire will do off road.
Litebrite videos circa 2018 will show just that. The Step Child started its road of modifications with a 2" spacer lift with 35's and than 37's, before Metalcloak replaced it.
 

Zandcwhite

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Litebrite videos circa 2018 will show just that. The Step Child started its road of modifications with a 2" spacer lift with 35's and than 37's, before Metalcloak replaced it.
I don't have a youtube channel, but she's been around the block. Until after the Dusy-Ershim she was still on spacers. Swapped in a set of springs to get a little more height out of it after more rocker, skid, and frame dragging than I enjoyed.

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Headbarcode

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I don't have a youtube channel, but she's been around the block. Until after the Dusy-Ershim she was still on spacers. Swapped in a set of springs to get a little more height out of it after more rocker, skid, and frame dragging than I enjoyed.

20210919_120353.jpg
I envy you guys in offroad friendly states. I wish I could call home after a work day like "hey babe, I'll be a little late. I'm hitting a quick trail on the way home". :rock:
 


Zandcwhite

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I envy you guys in offroad friendly states. I wish I could call home after a work day like "hey babe, I'll be a little late. I'm hitting a quick trail on the way home". :rock:
The jeep is her daily, but we do often get up Saturday morning and make an impromptu trail day out of it.
 

Zandcwhite

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Oh yeah, that's it... rub it in! 😆
California would be perfect were it not for our politicians. We are looking at Arizona for retirement. Finally got the jeep back from the shop after a month, so our only off roading was a beach trip last
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Sunday.
 

jeepingib

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I keep to name brands as I’ve had a friend almost killed when his cheap burst for no reason. The cheapest mud Terrains I found on tire rack was cooper mud terrains at $288 and change. 5 purchased mounted balance would be $1800. Again no wheels.

And to answer your question I wouldn’t do a budget lift. I like things to last and in my experience buying the quality the first time saves money headache and time.

You can do as you please as it is your money. More power to you. I do agree, that Bronco mods will be more money. I am impressed at what the broncos are already climbing oem or simple mods.
There's that condescending attitude that I've come to expect from you. Money =/= quality. I bought a budget boost when I could have gotten a full kit because my JL in stock form had already impressed me. So I wanted to see what it actually needs vs what I want. The Daystar 2"spacer lift came with a quality set of poly spacers, longer front lower control arms to correct caster, and shock extensions. I've modified it a bit. I no longer use the shock extensions, and in their place I have 2.5" Fox shocks from the Mopar kit, again found on Craigslist for 300 bucks. And I trimmed the fenders with the AAL kit so I have quite a bit of room for the tires now. The wheels are KMC Machete beadlocks. The only component that is of a slightly lower quality is the Milestar Patagonias that I bought used and will be replacing in a few months.
20211011_095527.jpg

Working on it a little bit at a time when I find something that is a good deal and is truly needed.

Show me how your Bronco looks?

Oh that's right, you've been here for well over a year and don't even have a Bronco yet. My bad
 

Richtor

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There's that condescending attitude that I've come to expect from you. Money =/= quality. I bought a budget boost when I could have gotten a full kit because my JL in stock form had already impressed me. So I wanted to see what it actually needs vs what I want. The Daystar 2"spacer lift came with a quality set of poly spacers, longer front lower control arms to correct caster, and shock extensions. I've modified it a bit. I no longer use the shock extensions, and in their place I have 2.5" Fox shocks from the Mopar kit, again found on Craigslist for 300 bucks. And I trimmed the fenders with the AAL kit so I have quite a bit of room for the tires now. The wheels are KMC Machete beadlocks. The only component that is of a slightly lower quality is the Milestar Patagonias that I bought used and will be replacing in a few months.
20211011_095527.jpg

Working on it a little bit at a time when I find something that is a good deal and is truly needed.

Show me how your Bronco looks?

Oh that's right, you've been here for well over a year and don't even have a Bronco yet. My bad
There was nothing condescending about my post. No cost does not equal quality, there are a lot of things that are super expensive and don’t last.

My Jeep prior to being sold is my avatar simple 2dr Rubicon oem. Personally I am not a fan of budget lifts. Every time you change the suspension you change the the geometry in which the vehicle is running. The engineering testing and time involved to lift or lower a vehicle with correct geometry adds to the cost. Again this is my own beliefs and I respect those who disagree with me.

I plan on running 35 12.5 on my oem Badlands. I would rub the same on the oem Rubicon if I had ordered a Jeep instead.
 


jeepingib

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@Richtor you must have missed the part about the budget boost kit coming with longer lower control arms to put things back to proper alignment. All for less than 300!

https://jeepsarelife.com/daystar-kj09177kv-suspension-lift-kit

And there are folks who are saying that the Sasquatch Bronco really does not ride differently than a Wrangler. If that is the case, then I have a hard time seeing an advantage for the Bronco. Initial cost is higher. The wait time is bonkers. It will be more expensive to own and maintain. It has some common failure points that do not have good solutions. There are a lot more negatives but I don't have all evening. I'll look for the positives...
Mirrors, but a narrow trail can rip those off and they aren't easily removed...
Frame less doors, but they are kind of heavy and the way they seal can lead to breakage and problems with ice...
But they can be put in the back of Bronco! Even if that kills all the storage and room for a cooler....
The power from that turbo V6 though! But it's mated to a transmission with a known high failure rate, and I could get a 392 Wrangler cheaper than some of the Broncos on the lots....
No crossbar on the cage! Which is why the hard top leaks and has a recall. Not to mention the possibility of the weaker geometry failing in a accident....

Help me out here, what are the positive things about it again?
 

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Every time you change the suspension you change the the geometry in which the vehicle is running.
I've lifted/lowered a bunch of both IFS and solid axle vehicles.. it's IMMENSELY easier to maintain that geometry on a solid axle vehicle. Start playing with tie rod angles on an IFS lol.
 

Richtor

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@Richtor you must have missed the part about the budget boost kit coming with longer lower control arms to put things back to proper alignment. All for less than 300!

https://jeepsarelife.com/daystar-kj09177kv-suspension-lift-kit

And there are folks who are saying that the Sasquatch Bronco really does not ride differently than a Wrangler. If that is the case, then I have a hard time seeing an advantage for the Bronco. Initial cost is higher. The wait time is bonkers…..

Help me out here, what are the positive things about it again?
When you change one item on the suspension all the specs will have new measurements. Sure the budget can do it’s it’s best to put back into almost oem alignment. A good lift will have 500k miles of on/off road R&D and will need over a year of testing.

Roll Center - Both front and rear suspensions have a Roll Center. This is an imaginary point around which the body of the car will rotate in a turn. The attachment points of the suspension components determine the Roll Center.
Roll Axis - A line between the front & rear Roll Centers.
CG (Center of Gravity) - The center point of the vehicle's mass.
Understeer - When the front tires lose traction first.
Oversteer - When the rear tires lose traction first.
Neutral Steer - The ideal balance when the front & rear tires gradually give up traction at an equal rate.
Spring Rate - Expressed in pounds per inch, it is the force necessary to compress the spring, i.e. a 200 lb spring requires 200 lbs to compress it 1 inch, 400 lbs to compress it 2 inches, etc.
Motion Ratio - Specifically we usually refer to the relationship between the motion of the wheel and the motion of the spring; i.e. If the spring is half the distance from the control arm pivot as the wheel is, the motion ratio relative to the wheel is .5 to 1.
Wheel Rate - The combined effect of spring rate, motion ratio, friction and/or binding of other suspension components measured at the wheel
Roll Bind - Any binding of suspension components that occurs as the body of the car leans over in a turn
Roll Steer - Generally refers to a steering effect on the rear axle as the car leans over in a corner. Caused by the rear control arms pivoting around their forward mounting point, drawing the axle forward as the arm moves up or down.
Bumpsteer - Toe change as the suspension moves up & down
Ackerman - Or in other words Toe out in turns. When turning the inside tire must turn more than the outer tire because it is turning on a smaller radius
Camber - Expressed in degrees, it is how much the tire leans in or out
Caster - The forward inclination of the spindle or strut - like the forks on a bicycle
Toe - The difference in the distance between the leading and trailing edge

Testing and making sure the geometry for all the above is on point takes time.

The Bronco is cheaper than the Jeep when comparing MSRP, mine is about $2k less. I had no issues with how my 12 Rubicon drove on road.
I've lifted/lowered a bunch of both IFS and solid axle vehicles.. it's IMMENSELY easier to maintain that geometry on a solid axle vehicle. Start playing with tie rod angles on an IFS lol.
No doubt!

 

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